Alexandre, Ricardo, Daniel, or maybe “Rico”. Of Brazilian, Argentinian or Portuguese origin, The man with a thousand faces, as the title of Sonia Kronlund’s documentary in theaters this Wednesday, is nicknamed, is sometimes an automobile engineer, sometimes a thoracic surgeon or a police officer. In 2015, Marianne, one of the victims of this serial mythomaniac, was pregnant by him. She discovers by chance that everything she thinks she knows about the future father of her child is false. His name is not Alexandre, his mother did not die of cancer, he has never worked in a hospital, he is not registered with the Order of Physicians and he does not go on trips for his work but to find other women to whom he tells new lies.
Serial talker and serial seducer, he changes personality from one woman to another. Gentle, reserved and an early sleeper for one, he is a party animal and passionate for another. He works on his lies like a screenwriter. Documented, precise and organized, he excels in the art of lying, producing false photos of his daily life, fictitious documents of his professional projects. He goes so far as to create administrative documents with his assumed name. For seven years, France Culture journalist Sonia Kronlund investigated the man she decided to name “Ricardo” – the first name he uses most often – and managed to meet him in Poland where he lives with a woman.
In the documentary, you explain that you needed to meet Ricardo’s victims, having yourself shared your life with manipulators. What did you discover about these women?
I discovered that there is no typical victim profile. They are extremely different in terms of their sociology, culture and personality. There aren’t really any commonalities between them that would make them guilty. They are not more crude than any other. Whether they are suspicious or benevolent, the trap works. It’s also a way of relieving them of guilt, of taking away the weight of “it’s my fault”.
How long did this investigation last?
From the time I heard about this story to the release of the film, it was seven years. This movie took me a while for many reasons. First, there was Covid-19. Some women didn’t want to talk to me or meet me. There was one, for example, who initially didn’t want to answer my phone. And finally she went on stage on the day of the premiere… She showed her face for the first time. This film is also a journey of benevolent reparation for these women. It’s very touching.
“ These are control mechanisms. He adapts to the behavior he has in front of him. »
What can we read in your work? “The Man of a Thousand Faces” published by Grasset in January that we don’t see on screen, and vice versa?
The film is riskier. It is a radical statement, almost political, in the sense that I decide to show the face of the man. First, there is this risk-taking, and there is the construction of a collective of women which is not in the book. I put a little more personal things and a little more theoretical questioning in the work.
What interested you about this story?
It’s dizzying, abysmal. It’s a story that asks a thousand questions and speaks about ourselves. We have all been victims and, at the same time, we all lie a little. Something in my psychology must be a little traumatized. I lived with big talkers and, at the same time, I come from a very Protestant, Swedish family. In my family’s culture, it’s very bad to lie. Like in the United States where Bill Clinton was mainly criticized for having lied rather than having had a relationship with Monica Lewinsky.
During your investigation, did you spot a modus operandi in setting up Ricardo’s trap?
He’s a chameleon, he adapts to every woman. He creates strong empathy by, for example, having his parents die quickly after meeting the women. Depending on the degree of distrust, moreover, it causes them to die more or less early. If she is suspicious, like the Polish victim, both parents die in a car accident the first weekend they met. The shock is more brutal. With Marianne, his mother suffers from cancer, he has a little more time to “enjoy” it. These are control mechanisms. He adapts to the behavior he has in front of him.
Through this survey, were you better able to answer the question of lying and why we lie?
It’s a bit corny, but I don’t think you should lie at all. Even in everyday life, even to please. It’s still easier not to lie at all. It’s hard to lie, I experienced it at the end of the film [pour rencontrer Ricardo et le filmer, Sonia Kronlund lui a fait croire qu’elle travaillait sur un faux reportage sur les marathoniens étrangers en Pologne]. Not lying in everyday life about lots of little things is difficult too. Perhaps the limit is when our actions hurt others. This is called “minimal ethics”. But I’m not sure it completely works. We can’t always know if we’re doing something wrong.
“ His intelligence would be fascinating if he didn’t hurt anyone. »
During these years of investigation, have you experienced any twists and turns or surprises?
I didn’t expect him to accept being filmed so easily. I was taken aback. I had considered several possibilities. One of them was to confront him, tell him everything I knew about him. At that moment, a very serious event occurred in the life of one of the women and I was afraid that he would call my sources, that he would threaten them, that he would try to find out where I got my information. And I thought I wouldn’t learn much. He would provide me with a new lie. He never recognized anything. It was more interesting to observe what he was going to produce for me, quite simply.
How did you feel in front of this man?
It was very stressful. It’s hard for me to lie and the lie was very big. In front of this man, I was like at a show. It was quite impressive to watch. Reported lies are one thing. Seeing someone lie to you while looking you straight in the eye is another. You know he’s lying. He doesn’t know it, but you do, so it’s still surprising.
What conclusions do you draw about Ricardo?
He’s a movie character. First, he is fed by films, he bombards women with images. He is at the same time an actor, a screenwriter, a director. When I saw these documents, the idea of making a film took hold. His favorite movie is Stop me if you can by Steven Spielberg [le personnage principal est un escroc qui usurpe plusieurs identités]. He shows this film to women! You imagine ? He lives in a very colorful universe with cinematographic clichés: the surgeon, the engineer… In one of the versions of the documentary montage, each of his lies was illustrated with a film extract. We looked for where his imagination came from. For his surgeon character, we found extracts fromEMERGENCIESwith George Clooney, who went well with the lines he gave.
In the episode of “Pieds sur terre”, on France Culture, which you devote to one of the victims, you mention the fact that he spent a lot of time in the library working on his characters.
We don’t know if he goes to the library, but we can assume he does. He definitely works on his characters. He finds himself in a wedding discussing with a thorax surgeon. He manages to hold a conversation. The surgeon recognizes him, she goes up to him and says, “I bet you’re the other chest surgeon in the wedding.” They have a discussion and it is credible. His intelligence would be fascinating if he didn’t hurt anyone.