interview
Islam expert Guido Steinberg
“The problem is that Erdogan can barely walk because of his strength.”
Turkish President Erdogan: Delicate visit to the Chancellor
© Kazakhstan’s Presidential Press Service / AFP
The Turkish President’s visit to Berlin is causing emotional debates. In the star-Interview, Islam expert Guido Steinberg explains why the Chancellor’s invitation follows a problematic tradition – but is still correct.
The Turkish president comes in the evening Recep Tayyip Erdoğan for dinner with the Chancellor after Berlin. How sensitive is the visit?
Let’s face it: we’re dealing with a politician who which has its roots in the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood has. We’ve known this for years, but it’s just now being shown again by Erdogan Hamas celebrates, attacks Israel and tries to present himself as the leader of the Muslim world. The problem is that Erdogan can barely walk because of his strength. You have to think carefully about how to deal with him.
© Marc Darchinger
Guido Steinberg
The Islamic scholar has been researching the contemporary history and politics of the Near and Middle East for years at the Science and Politics Foundation (SWP) in Berlin, with a focus on the Persian Gulf, Islamism and Islamist terrorism. He acts as an expert for the German judiciary in terrorism proceedings and is the author of numerous specialist books, including on the power struggle between Iran and Saudi Arabia in the Gulf.
How should the Chancellor act? What do you expect from him?
So far he’s doing everything right. The Türkiye Despite all the criticism of its president and his policies, it is an important NATO ally, at least theoretically a candidate for EU membership and a key country in the current migration crisis. Of course the Chancellor has to meet with the President – and during the meeting find some calm but clear words about Erdogan’s statements on the conflict between Hamas and Israel.
Erdogan is just one of several problematic rulers that the Chancellor is meeting these days. The list is long: Xi Jinping, the Emir of Qatar, Egypt’s President al-Sisi. Do we have to get used to these despots now?
In a way, yes. What Scholz is doing is acknowledging reality. The air for Germany becomes thinner internationally; The number and power of authoritarian states worldwide is increasing. We have to talk to these characters, as difficult as that is at times. Whether in refugee policy, security policy or the wars in Ukraine and the Middle East – we are getting there authoritarian rulers in Ankara, Istanbul or Riyadh. And Scholz’s course has now prevailed in the government.
In what way?
The Foreign Minister initially used completely different rhetorical approaches than the Chancellor. She spoke of feminist foreign policy and a values-based foreign policy. There’s hardly any talk of that with her now, because there are much more urgent, existential questions and the actions of our government cannot be reconciled with these very theoretical concepts. Scholz, on the other hand, didn’t have any big visions, so it’s not that noticeable who he meets with.
His party also tolerates this. Do you have an explanation for this?
Scholz is helped by the tradition in the SPD of having often developed a trusting relationship with dictatorships and autocrats – often far too trusting. Actually, his course should be tensions generate in the SPD, where people like to talk about human and women’s rights, the protection of minorities and social democracy worldwide. But in relation to dictatorships, social democracy has always acted in an extremely real-political and often aloof manner.
You mean proximity to Vladimir Putin?
For example. But Scholz does this more cautiously than many others before him. He misses the naive unrealisticness of Frank-Walter Steinmeier’s Russia policy, but above all he is alien to the chummy fraternization of Gerhard Schröder with despots like Putin and Erdogan. He does this in a coolly pragmatic manner, acknowledges realities and maintains personal distance. Something else helps him: the party’s deeply rooted belief in the mantra of change through rapprochement. Many Social Democrats still believe that dangers can be reduced by approaching autocrats and not relying on confrontation, but rather on partnership. That’s why his party doesn’t accuse the Chancellor of his policies.
Does Erdogan actually need us too?
Naturally. Germany and the EU are particularly important economically for Turkey, which has been in a deep economic crisis for years that almost cost Erdogan his re-election. There is also migration policy, where Turkey benefited from the 2016 refugee deal and would like to have more support. The Turkish government may also be worried that the current debate about anti-Semitism among Muslims in Germany will have an impact on its allies here. There are voices calling for tougher action against the Muslim Brotherhood and also against Turkish religious-political organizations such as DITIB, which are accused of being controlled by Ankara.