Stefan Hartung, 56, is quite a revolution for Bosch. On the one hand, the native of Dortmund is the first non-Swabian to head the company with 400,000 employees. Secondly, although he is a mechanical engineer, he is more of a robust do-it-yourselfer than a Swabian inventor: Hanging up pictures gives him a feeling of success, admits Hartung. The laughter that follows is – thirdly – an emotion that is otherwise rarely heard here at the Bosch headquarters in Stuttgart. But probably helpful in these times.
SZ: Mr. Hartung, are you flying to Beijing with Olaf Scholz?
Stefan Hartung: Unfortunately, that didn’t fit into my schedule. But I find it quite understandable that the Federal Chancellor is flying. Relations with China are very important for Germany, both politically and economically.
But Xi Jinping has just usurped all power. Does the trip really come at the right time?
Precisely because there are controversial topics, a direct exchange can make sense. And even if there is a need to talk. We have been in China since 1909 and have 55,000 employees there who are as much a part of us as anyone else. Especially since our team there is “very Bosch”, if you will. We stand by our China business. This is an extremely challenging market. You have to be really good and really fast to make it there.
Are you too dependent on China?
With a turnover of more than 20 percent, the China business is of course important for us. However, the dependency is not fundamental: at Bosch we have relatively few products that we export from China to Europe and vice versa. We produce most of the things for China in China itself. If we didn’t do that anymore, we would be less efficient as a company and much smaller. That would not be good. But that is different from an existential dependency, such as with gas. Business in and with China is crucial for the competitiveness of Europe and Germany.
China is increasingly focusing on producing more itself.
Many talk about decoupling. But we cannot divide the world into three economic islands. If we no longer tackle the great challenges together, this will jeopardize the achievements of civilization. So how do we win the fight against climate change? We can only do this together. One should keep dependency manageable, but collaboration remains imperative. We don’t set out on the path to a better world if we exclude a very large part of this world.
Just because Bosch earns a lot of money in China, does Beijing take part in climate protection? You don’t think so yourself.
Of course it’s not that simple. We are not a political player, but a global company. But we can provide technical answers to the ecological questions – here, in China and worldwide. And the world also needs global answers to global challenges.
Stefan Hartung: The first non-Swabian at the helm of the traditional company.
(Photo: Bernd Weißbrod/picture alliance/dpa)
Do you have any plans for an exit from China?
Of course, we are also thinking in scenarios here, but once again: this option is not desirable.
The energy crisis is currently hitting German industry. How do you get through the winter?
The situation is serious here, as it is for many industries, but is currently still manageable. What matters is that the current flows. It’s like the masks in the pandemic: It’s one thing to pay a lot – and the other thing to have no masks at all. In theory, markets are infinite, but in fact that is not true: at some point there will be nothing left. That shouldn’t happen with electricity.
Gas not worrying you?
Bosch is a classic technology company, so we’re not particularly energy-intensive. We cover 70 percent of our energy requirements mainly with green electricity, especially for systems in production. Only 20 percent with gas. A quarter of it is very difficult to replace because we use it directly in production. We need three quarters for heating rooms or water, where we can save: The room here is heated less – like everyone else. It’s a bit cold, sorry, I think it’s a bit chilly. But we’re doing our part.
What do you burn gas for?
Mainly in furnaces and technical processes. In our semiconductor factories, for example, exhaust gases are produced that have to be burned. That only works with gas. The very high temperatures neutralize the pollutant. If there is no gas, the factory stands still.
The EU has just decided: 2035 is really the end for combustion engines. On the other hand, the price of electricity rises when energy is scarce. So can the schedule change again?
I don’t see that on the part of the industry, on the contrary. Many in the auto industry are accelerating now, electricity price or not. Converting production to electromobility is a feat of strength, you can’t just turn it back. And once we convert the factory, we build a lot of cars very quickly. But we also have to create the necessary infrastructure for electromobility, including hydrogen: charging stations, lines, networks, hydrogen filling stations – nationwide. In order for the schedule to work, things have to happen quickly here too. Politics is decisive for electromobility – and above all the consumer.
As the?
The consumer does not necessarily buy what he needs, but what he wants. Customer acceptance will determine the future of electromobility. Is the infrastructure right? can i load
And then there is the price of electricity, the new currency for running a car.
First and foremost, e-mobility means transforming consumers, not industry.
Are the motorists delaying the drive turnaround?
I wouldn’t say so. However, we are seeing that people are driving their cars longer than they used to. So we have older combustion engines on the road for longer. That’s not climate friendly.
When you talk about whether customers are really switching to electric cars, you sound more worried than when you talk about the gas crisis.
Consumers must also join in the fight against climate change. You are in a very difficult mental situation right now. The rising prices, the energy supply, the security situation itself – all these factors worsen the consumer climate. One topic has to be left on board, to put it in northern German: inflation. She must leave. Every citizen in Europe needs monetary stability as an important factor in his life. Otherwise much that he possesses and has worked for will expire. We won’t last long at 10 percent inflation. It is correct that central banks intervene with the painful means of raising interest rates.
The situation in the Bosch group is also difficult, and not just since the Ukraine war.
Of course, we are also feeling the tense situation: ongoing supply bottlenecks, especially for semiconductors, tightened regulations from Brussels, changes in the automotive industry…
Is this so much of a crisis that even a company like Bosch, which stands for social compatibility, is reaching its limits? Is the so-called Bosch way over?
Now that sounds like a platitude, but: In every crisis there are also opportunities. For every manager – also in our company – it is now crucial not to constantly talk about how everything Not is working.
Are too many managers pessimistic?
No, but you could get the idea. It’s too easy to pile everything up in the current situation and imagine the downfall. That can’t be the claim.
What is Bosch’s claim?
We want to grow stronger than we had planned. We have to too. If everything gets more expensive, our products will also get more expensive, so we have to grow even more – there’s no other way. We had set ourselves the goal of six percent, and now we’ve gotten so far that it should actually be in the double digits.
Money has to come from somewhere for that. There have already been some rounds of savings at Bosch. Are you laying off more people or even closing plants?
That’s not our goal. We must work to ensure our competitiveness in the long term and to increase productivity again. This has less to do with the current crisis.
If you listen to the company, it is said that staff can no longer be cut in a “socially acceptable” manner.
So far we have always managed to do this and found socially acceptable solutions. I see no reason why it shouldn’t work this time as well. However, we have never said that we generally refrain from redundancies for operational reasons. You can’t guarantee that.
But is it still comfortable to work at Bosch?
It’s not comfortable, it’s very exhausting right now. Unfortunately, comfort is not part of the program.
What’s so tiring?
All of life is more unstable. We all get up in the morning and read war news. That’s why it’s important to me: When people come in here or switch on their computers in the home office, they should have a clear feeling of stability. Corona, Ukraine, semiconductors, suppliers, everywhere we are working in task forces. But I am confident that we can return to normal working mode in 2024.
As the?
The energy supply will have improved. And maybe that’s how inflation and thus the recession tendencies settled down again. Of course, this is all pure speculation, but I don’t think it’s out of the question.
Where do you get your basic optimism from?
I have two basic beliefs. On the one hand, we humans are very innovative beings who have a constant urge to improve. And on the other hand, we may sometimes be weak individually, we all know that. But collectively as a group we are very strong. Tens of us are starting, and hundreds or thousands of us are very difficult to stop. That’s how we got through this crisis, and I’m seeing a lot of people surpass themselves right now.
Who, Robert Habeck?
There are also people in government who work day and night.
And is it good work by the federal government?
In view of the many challenges, that is impressive. And don’t criticize if you’re not sure you could do better yourself. And I don’t know. Ultimately, you will be able to judge this better in two to three years.
You praise the government despite the gas levy being messed up?
This can happen to anyone. I take A, it doesn’t work, so I take B. Anyone who’s been to the plant and made production knows that. I’m very merciful.