It has something of déjà vu – in several respects: Not only that Chancellor Olaf Scholz takes a seat in his old mayor’s chair in the Hamburg Cum-Ex Committee of the Citizenship. His ability to remember is also reminiscent of previous appearances.
Olaf Scholz is on time. At 2:02 p.m., the Chancellor greeted both the SPD chairman of the parliamentary investigative committee of the Hamburg Parliament on the “Cum-Ex” scandal and the secretary and CDU chairman with a handshake before he sat down in his usual place in the plenary hall of the town hall on Friday . “I’m happy to be back in Hamburg after a long time, especially in this square,” said the former mayor of Hamburg, opening his second appearance before the committee.
This time, too, he is to help as a witness to clarify the question of whether he or other leading SPD politicians influenced the tax treatment of the Warburg Bank, which was involved in the “Cum-Ex” scandal. Chancellor Scholz, who stated his profession as a lawyer to the committee, first castigated “cum-ex” transactions in general – “that’s nothing more than tax fraud” – then emphasized that he had been committed to a fair tax system throughout his political life .
Three meetings with Warburg bankers
It only takes a few minutes for him to repeat what he said during his first interrogation in April last year. “I had no influence on the Warburg tax process.” This time he adds that he hopes that the assumptions and insinuations, which are “supported by nothing and nobody”, will now slowly come to an end.
The background to the allegations by the opposition are three meetings between Scholz and the shareholders of Warburg Bank, Christian Olearius and Max Warburg, in 2016 and 2017. After the first meeting, the Hamburg tax authorities had to reclaim wrongly refunded capital gains tax, despite originally having different plans of 47 million euros against the bank. Another 43 million euros were reclaimed a year later, shortly before the statute of limitations expired and on the instructions of the Federal Ministry of Finance.
Scholz admitted to the meetings during his first interrogation in April last year, but stated that he could no longer remember the content. That is still the case, says the Chancellor. At the same time, he emphasizes that he considers meetings between the mayor and bankers to be appropriate. In addition, the committee’s investigations since then have confirmed exactly what he said at the time: “There has been no political interference whatsoever.”
“I don’t want to,” Scholz replies
Scholz rejects the question from the CDU MP Götz Wiese as to whether his advice to Olearius was an influence to send a letter on the situation of the bank to the then finance senator and current mayor Peter Tschentscher (SPD). “Can you justify that?” asked Wiese. “I don’t have to,” Scholz replies. “I ask you to do so,” Wiese digs in. “I don’t want to,” Scholz replies.
After Olearius had sent the letter to Tschentscher, he had forwarded the letter to the tax authorities with a “request for information on the situation”.
As in April, the MPs are finding it extremely difficult to deal with the witness Scholz. They question him again and again and they always get the same answers: he can’t remember, he doesn’t know, he doesn’t know. Again and again: “It makes no sense if we speculate together here.”
Absurd interrogation
The absurdity of the interrogation becomes clear at the latest when CDU chairman Richard Seelmaecker asks whether the chancellor is prepared to pursue his lost memories under hypnosis. “I thank you for caricaturing the state of this survey yourself,” says Scholz, but would rather “leave off this hocus-pocus.”
Even without concrete memories, it is clear to him: “There was no preferential treatment for Mr. Warburg or Mr. Olearius.” Scholz also emphasizes: “The Free and Hanseatic City has not suffered any financial damage in this matter.” The tax debts had been reclaimed and paid – however, in 2016 it was not yet clear that this was possible. The repayment was only made later after a corresponding court decision and Warburg Bank is still taking legal action against it.
The controversial meetings between Scholz and Olearius are said to have been initiated by the then SPD member of the Bundestag Johannes Kahrs and the former SPD Interior Senator Alfons Pawelczyk. According to members of the Hamburg investigative committee, investigation files show that more than 200,000 euros in cash were found in a Kahrs safe deposit box. Scholz says he doesn’t know about the locker, its contents, or where the money came from. Kahrs, who is being investigated for aiding and abetting tax evasion, has so far remained silent about the origin of the money.
Olaf Scholz is satisfied after the hearing
After around three and a half hours of questioning, Chancellor Scholz is satisfied. “It was a very interesting hearing today.” It was also very good and brought very clear results, namely that there was no interference. “I admit I was prepared for the fact that it would take longer. But the fact that it was very quick and efficient also speaks to the fact that everything is now on the table.”
The opposition, however, sees it differently. “Of course it was short. He had memory gap after memory gap after memory gap again,” says Wiese. That’s disappointing. “Today Olaf Scholz did not contribute to the clarification of this case.” Left chairman Norbert Hackbusch takes a similar view: “I think the chancellor hasn’t proven capable (…) of helping.”
The chancellor’s second appearance was originally planned as the conclusion of the parliamentary committee of inquiry. The disclosure of the results of the investigation by the Cologne public prosecutor’s office, which is investigating the “Cum-Ex” transactions of the Warburg Bank, and press reports on previously kept secret minutes of a statement by Scholz in 2020 before the Finance Committee of the Bundestag have given rise to many new questions.
CDU and Linke want to hear Scholz a third time and expand the commission’s investigation to include the “Cum-Ex” transactions of the former Landesbank HSH Nordbank. Then the head of the Chancellor’s office, Wolfgang Schmidt, who has been Chancellor Scholz’s intimate friend for many years, should also be summoned.