interview
Status: 08.12.2022 1:03 p.m
The right-wing extremism expert Speit says that the plans to overthrow the so-called Reich citizens are serious and well advanced. What is particularly shocking is which groups of people are involved. “They know how to carry out attacks.”
tagesschau.de: Have the so-called Reich citizens been underestimated in their importance as an anti-state group?
Andrew Speit: In recent years it has been noticed that the security authorities have taken a closer look at this milieu. The background is dramatic: in 2016 there was unfortunately a shootout during an attempt to disarm a Reich citizen in Bavaria. He immediately opened fire on the police and shot dead a police officer. Since then, more attention has been paid to this phenomenon at federal level.
What is shocking is the group of people we are now experiencing. We have people from the aristocratic milieu, from the AfD milieu, from the rich ideological milieu, lateral thinking milieu and from the security structures of the Federal Republic. And not for the first time, by the way. Again KSK persons are involved in a network that planned terror. That’s really dramatic. Not only can they handle a weapon, they also know how to prepare something, how to carry out an attack.
“In individual federal states there have also been actions against so-called Reich citizens before,” Andreas Speit, journalist and author, on the Reich citizen scene
tagesschau24 10:00 a.m., 8.12.2022
tagesschau.de: Why isn’t someone checked long ago when someone like that works in the security authorities or in high positions in the Bundeswehr?
Spit: I am not an expert on the MAD and on how the Bundeswehr checks out such people. Often one has the feeling that this happens a bit randomly: when they expose themselves or when they use conspicuous wording in chats. There are ways – including tips from the troops themselves. For example, saying: “Take a closer look at them.”
We should not accept the argument that these are people from the middle of society and that the cross-section of society is also a bit right-wing, i.e. also in the Bundeswehr, even in the special forces are right-wing people. It is not that easy. These structures attract a certain staff that is more authoritarian in character.
About: Andreas Speit
Andreas Speit is a journalist and publicist. He is considered one of the most renowned experts on the right-wing extremist scene in Germany. Among other things, he writes for the “tageszeitung” and has published numerous books on the subjects of right-wing extremism and neo-Nazism. In 2018 his book “The Network of Identitarians. Ideology and Actions of the New Right” was published.
tagesschau.de: Would you have believed that this group would actually have been able to carry out plans for a coup if they hadn’t been exposed beforehand?
Spit: It must be said clearly that this group had two structures: a political one, a prince wanted to become a monarch again, and a military one. And I emphasize it again: These were people who knew how to do it. It was quite obvious that there was more than just talk here, otherwise the security forces would not have taken such action against this group.
tagesschau.de: Are you afraid that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that other groups planning similar things have now been warned, beware and then sooner or later something will actually happen?
Spit: In the Federal Republic it is assumed that we have around 21,000 people who are moved to the Reich. In the past few months we have seen that there is enormous radicalization in the context of the pandemic and now also in the crisis caused by the war in Ukraine. In short: it is always possible for such groups to merge again.
tagesschau.de: If we look at German history: the RAF was once a terrorist group that had fantasies of a coup. Where do you see the parallels and where the differences?
Spit: It is interesting that when we think of terror in the Federal Republic, we automatically think of left-wing terror. We have a very, very long tradition of right-wing terror in the Federal Republic after 1945. I think it’s helpful to look at the right-wing terrorist groups that have been murdering in the Federal Republic over the past few decades – I’m just reminding you of the attack at the Oktoberfest in Bavaria, which was the largest right-wing extremist attack at the time if we count the number of deaths to compare.
The formulation that is haunting the media is that this was the largest right-wing network, which has now been exposed. But one has to say that the largest right-wing terror network was the NSU. And not everyone involved was prosecuted.