Sir Tim Clark, 73, has been at the helm of Emirates for almost 20 years. During this time, the company has become the largest international airline. Clark is now orchestrating the new beginning after the corona pandemic – and could soon retire afterwards.
SZ: Sir Tim Clark, Russia has invaded Ukraine, there is war in Europe. The economic outlook is bleak, inflation is high, as are energy prices. No good prospects for the airlines either, one would think.
Tim Clark: Actually, yes. But what we’re seeing in aviation right now goes against everything I’ve learned throughout my life in this industry. I look at the numbers and think to myself, when will the point come where it will tip over, the prices will be too high and the demand will decrease. But the point doesn’t come. The indicators aren’t all looking good, but people still go out to restaurants, they buy clothes, and they see themselves as global citizens. That’s why they want to travel.
How is this affecting Emirates?
We have just had the best half year in our history and if this continues, it will be the best year. There are people who say times have never been so good for the airlines. Things are out of balance: there is high demand and little supply. Thank God we have had a thousand pilots for the Airbus in the past ten months A380 trained. Every time we put a seat in the market, we could sell it ten times. We can no longer keep up with the demand. The pandemic was apparently a really traumatic experience for many. Now people want to see the world before anything else happens. We also see in many surveys that travel is at the top of the list of needs.
And how long will this go on?
When people get their freedom back, there’s going to be a big party. It will go on like this until everything has settled down again, until the supply chains are working again. And it has become normal again for people to be able to travel. Then the urge is no longer so great. On the other hand, I also believe that the inflation rate will fall, as will interest rates. Just-in-time will come back and, if you ask me, the war in Ukraine will also end. If all of that happens, look what’s going to happen, especially in this industry. I always tell my people they have to be ready for the moment when it counts to react fastest and seize opportunities. So we also take risks.
For example, with almost 120 aircraft, by far the largest AirbusA380– Fleet to fly.
There were 84 in the air last week. Some are still in the desert and need to go through maintenance before we can use them again.
They are considered the greatest A380-Fan in aviation, but Airbus has discontinued the program because the jets need so much kerosene.
Yes, I recently spoke to Guillaume Faury (CEO of Airbus, the red.) had dinner and told him something on the subject. Imagine if we could use Airbus’ more efficient Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines A350 and take them to the A380 mount – that alone would mean ten to 15 percent less consumption. If we take next-generation engines that Rolls-Royce is already working on, we would easily be 25 percent less. And then imagine, a new wing, better aerodynamics. What we have so far is an airplane developed in the 90’s for the noughties.
Guillaume Faury is CEO of the aerospace group Airbus, he hired the A 380.
(Photo: Stephan Rumpf)
And what did Faury say?
He said if I’m that serious about one A380 2.0, then Emirates should take on 50 percent of the development costs. I replied that I would be happy to do it if he paid me 50 percent of the operating costs.
Okay, that would have settled the issue.
Yes, but with very large airplanes and all the new technology, you could still fly extremely efficiently. What I said about the A380 also applies to the new Boeing 777X. The aircraft was developed from 2010, we will probably get our first machine in 2025. The only thing is: the technology has now advanced.
Although the industry is under tremendous political pressure to become greener, things are looking bad for new aircraft into the mid-2030s. Boeing has just pushed back a successor to the 737 Max by years.
Yes, but they didn’t do that because it wouldn’t work with today’s technology. The overriding reason is: they can’t. They have to get out of this hole they’re in, get production back up, fix all the problems on the 737 Max, the 787 and the 777X. They have to meet the demands of their customers and deliver airplanes. But of course there will be new machines in the future, probably only for the short and medium-haul market.
When?
You need a different kind of people at the top for that. You need innovators and champions. I don’t see them. If you talk to the engineers, you will find many who are really interested in trying something new. But they are suppressed in corporate culture.
Is there a chance for a third party to break through the duopoly between Airbus and Boeing?
The hurdles are extremely high. In recent years we have repeatedly seen failed attempts. The Chinese are desperate to get the technology to be competitive, but they are way behind. If you still want to try it, you have to be very brave.
An Airbus A 380 from Emirates in Frankfurt, behind it a landing machine from Lufthansa.
(Photo: imago images/Rüdiger Wölk)
Emirates recently forged an alliance with former nemesis United Airlines. United is a partner of Lufthansa in the Star Alliance. The news didn’t even reach Frankfurt.
I don’t know how much of the negotiations got through to Lufthansa, but we were able to keep them secret for a very long time. But I think in the pandemic, United and Air Canada, who we also work with, have realized what the Star Alliance cannot offer them. For example, there were questions about how much the many small alliance members actually bring. And alliances are so complex, it doesn’t make any sense to me at all. It’s far better to work with someone from outside rather than continue to be restricted. And we have a lot to offer.
Would you also like to work with Lufthansa?
I would like to do community flights, yes. There are some holes in the Lufthansa route network that we could fill. For example the Australia routes. Or why not code sharing between Dubai and Berlin? As long as we keep it simple and execute it well, both would benefit.
So far, Emirates has not been present here: Berlin Airport BER
(Photo: imago images/Jochen Eckel)
Speaking of Berlin. Emirates is only allowed to fly to four destinations in Germany. After years of unsuccessful lobbying, do you still have hope that you will eventually be able to connect the German capital to your hub in Dubai?
We will not give up our demand to be allowed to fly to Berlin, if only for the obvious reason that every international airline should be allowed to fly to the capital of Germany without restrictions. Stuttgart is still a destination, but Berlin is more interesting because it has grown so much and because of the economic development here. We have been in Frankfurt since 1987, and Munich, Düsseldorf and Hamburg were added later. The notion that we could abandon any of the four goals in order to launch Berlin is not a demand that the federal government can reasonably make. We were kind of hoping things might move because the Chancellor is the former mayor of Hamburg. But well.
Saudi Arabia has just announced plans for a gigantic new airport in Riyadh, with RIA as the new airline to copy the Emirates model. You get new competition.
A lot of people are very concerned about this, but I’m not. Tony Douglas (new CEO of RIA, the Red.) has a Herculean task ahead of it. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has told him that he wants an airline like Emirates, but not in 37 years, but in seven. Good luck with it. But of course we feel honored. Maybe he shouldn’t have said so loud that the state will put $30 billion into the airline. A lot of people will get upset about this. But if Saudi Arabia’s economic plans are implemented – the new city of Neom, growth in tourism – then neighboring countries will also benefit. However, bin Salman needs to find a large amount of workers somewhere and may find that this could be a small problem.
The World Cup is currently taking place in Qatar. There is a lot of criticism about the way Qatar has treated the foreign construction workers and about the human rights situation. How do you feel about this?
That’s a very difficult question. The general line in the Middle East is that the World Cup is good for the region because everyone benefits. And there’s no question: Dubai is also benefiting. The fact that it is taking place in Qatar is another matter. There’s a lot of debate and the Qataris have to deal with it as best they can. Anyway, it didn’t go well for her. In recent years, media and political spotlights have focused heavily on Qatar because of the working conditions. As for the number of dead workers, I simply don’t have the facts. I don’t know how many victims there were. But I would be surprised if there weren’t improvements, even if the start was difficult. And why shouldn’t they pay the workers? That doesn’t make any sense at all.