Between 2 and 3% of voting intentions, it is the little that it manages to glean, for the moment, in the polls. Despite this setback, which she probably did not expect when she embarked on the race for the Elysee Palace on September 12, 2021, the socialist candidate has lost none of her verve. Anne Hidalgo is offensive, unfolds her program without gene to claim a pragmatic left of government which seems to have disappointed the left electorate. She is not letting go, and the geopolitical themes, which will probably take over this campaign, could be a card to play for the one who enjoys international stature as mayor of Paris. But the road is long, immensely long before the Elysée, or even a simple qualification for the second round.
You condemned the Russian intervention in Ukraine. Now that the war is on, what should France’s attitude be towards Moscow?
France’s attitude must be one of the greatest firmness. The situation is of unprecedented gravity. France and Europe must meet history and show unity. The French reaction must be fully in line with that of the European Union. We need firm and immediate economic sanctions: blocking of Russian propaganda organizations, seizure of the assets of those close to the Kremlin, suspension of access to international financial transfer systems. The European Union must also demonstrate our full solidarity by providing Ukraine with the military equipment needed to deal with this conflict. It is about defending our democratic model and the sovereignty of the European nations of which Ukraine is a part. And we must not leave the Ukrainian people alone. We must prepare for the reception of refugees and we will have to provide material and human support to neighboring countries. We must also commit ourselves resolutely to the Europe of Defence, the need for which is even more evident in the light of this war.
You also said that there would be no lasting solution to these kinds of conflicts without climate diplomacy, that is to say?
Most of the conflicts on the planet are linked to the appropriation of resources. Many conflicts are linked to the control of territorial areas of the world where, for example, oil is produced. Today, we are again faced with a crisis in which the question of energy and the exploitation of mineral resources essential for the production of energy, including renewable energies, is very present. Even if there are historical reasons for this conflict, for Russia’s perception of Ukraine, I think France must take up the torch of climate diplomacy. We are, in this 21st century, faced with a new geopolitical deal with China on one side, the United States on the other, and a Europe that must find its place. And in this Europe, France has a very special role. If we abandon the climate issue, then we will not be able to resolve conflicts. That of Ukraine today, and others that will come tomorrow and that will be linked to the climate issue.
You wish, in the long term, to completely phase out nuclear power and invest in renewable energies. How, in practice, would this translate?
Several scenarios have been put on the table, very well informed by RTE (Electricity transmission network). I chose to favor the scenario which proposes to do with 100% renewable energies (EnR). The goal is to get there by 2050, but I think it may be a bit later. We must target and profoundly transform our economy by planning it, which has not been done at all in the past five years. Today, instead of being at 32% renewable energy in the energy mix, as Emmanuel Macron had promised, we are still at 19%. So why not get out of nuclear right away? Because we need it, and because I’m pragmatic and don’t want our economy to collapse, or even energy dependency. Because nuclear energy remains structuring for the country and generates a lot of jobs. The Flamanville nuclear power plant, which will cost 19 billion euros, will allow a smoothing, and will also make this development possible.
But at the end of the maximum possible extension of the use of current nuclear reactors, how, concretely, to get out of nuclear power?
At the same time as we extend their lifespan, we will increase the production of renewables. With photovoltaics which allows local distribution and production. Today, there are also technologies that improve storage conditions for these renewable energies. And then there is the issue of wind power, which is debated because of its impact on the environment and on landscapes. But, for example, when it comes to offshore wind power, you have to go for it! In the overseas territories, it must also be made an absolute priority so that they can become truly self-sufficient in terms of energy. Moreover, when wind power is managed by communities and by mobilized collectives, it works. Because the population is associated with it. What poses a problem is when the State mandates or lets large companies take care of the transition to renewable energies.
The Agricultural Show opens on Saturday. In ten years, France has lost 100,000 farmers, and it will get worse with massive retirements. There are several obstacles to the takeover of farms by young people: size of plots, land prices… What solutions do you propose to try to solve this equation?
My priority is the installation of young farmers. I therefore want to redirect the aid, in particular from the CAP and the National Strategic Plan, to truly support the facilities. How? ‘Or’ What ? By setting up support on the land issue. By also allowing them to benefit, when they take over an installation, from aid for the conversion of these farms to organic or reasoned farming. Because today, we see that CAP aid goes mainly to very large farms and that when it accompanies the organic transition, aid is allocated very, very late.
When farmers make this conversion, they have to take care of their daily lives alone for several years, which is almost impossible. Paradoxically, this is a situation that I know well, even as mayor of Paris, because we had to offer farmers land belonging to the City of Paris. We have decided to help young farmers to exploit these lands on the condition that they do not use pesticides so as not to pollute the water and our groundwater, these lands being located near the rivers which are used to capture the water for Parisians. What these young farmers who have settled there tell me is that this aid enabled them to hold out for such a long time before obtaining aid from the CAP.
You are proposing a “Minimum youth”: social assistance would be accessible from the age of 18 and only 25 years old. You say it will be means tested. But what resources: those of the parents or of the young person?
First of all parents, but I will integrate a certain number of young people with a broken family. We are not going to ask them to prove parental income. I’m not going to give you the access conditions here, because all of this still needs to be worked on and also discussed with youth organisations, but I really hope that this aid can also go to middle-class children. Because they are often cut off from scholarships, cut off from all forms of aid. Children from working and middle classes – who have really dropped out in our country – today suffer from very, very great precariousness and need us to accompany them with this help. They are often young people who, as a result, are looking for a small job to pay for their studies. But the odd job, at some point, also becomes a problem in the success of studies. We must give ourselves the chance to raise the level of qualification of our youth.
You proudly claim to represent a government left. How do you defend this point of view in a campaign where there seems to be a premium for radicalism?
Premium for radicalism, premium for demagoguery, where you can say anything… This presidential election in particular has become a distressing spectacle… How do we do it? I think you have to keep seriousness, ambition and the ideal at the same time. I think we need a left government that is capable of making the necessary compromises in society so that points of view come together. I am a feminist, I entered political life through the feminist fight and I think that the conquest of rights, the fight against discrimination is essential. Of course you have to push and radicalism is extremely important. I’m a very radical person, given the decisions I’ve made.
But the left, which does not take pleasure in this radicality, does not come to power. Or if she gains power she is incapable of seeking dialogue with others. When you govern, you also have to be able to create consensus so that you can find your way around. Why, for example, on a subject like the question of the legalization of cannabis, am I proposing a consensus conference? Because it is a divisive subject. However, the status quo is not possible, it is my conviction. But I know that if we put the subject on the table by saying “for or against” nothing will happen. Me, I want something to happen, that from our contradictions and even our democratic confrontations, we can go on a path.
You speak of rapprochement and getting out of divisions… You claim to be social-ecology… Why not already make a rapprochement with the environmentalist candidate?
But we tried it! I put all my weight over a year ago to try to get this closeness and to discuss from the bottom. I do it every day here as mayor of Paris. I tried a second time when, in December, I proposed a real primary. I took on that responsibility, including taking the risk of losing it. I proposed that all those who want to govern together find themselves before the voters. All the TVs agreed, we would have had three debates on the orientations in December and January: what do we want, who we are, how we would govern, with whom, and how? I assure you that it would have been something else from the point of view of the dynamics for the left.
It was refused. On the one hand, Jean-Luc Mélenchon did not want it because he is obsessed with making the PS disappear – he who was nevertheless very well fed by the PS – and wants to go to the end of his own story. . Very well. And then, on the side of the Greens, they refused it, saying that they had already done a primary. Agreed, but it was not a primary open to the entire left. Why this lack of generosity at that time, when we could have done it? Me, I tried it and I will always continue to seek this gathering. Without denying or renouncing our identity.
The door is not closed?
The door is never closed, but finally, there, we are still on track to have an election on April 10 with all the candidates who will have obtained their sponsorships. Yannick Jadot got his and me too.