Sudan: “A country with two armies cannot be stable”

A month after fighting began in Sudan, the UN is still struggling to get humanitarian aid to the people. In an interview, UN special envoy Perthes describes the problems facing the UN.

ARD: How successful have the negotiations on a ceasefire with the warring parties been so far?

Volker Perthes: So far, the warring parties, mediated by Saudi and American media, have only agreed on a declaration of respect for humanitarian principles. Nothing more. And they want to continue the talks.

The problem with previous ceasefires was that these ceasefires were only declared unilaterally. The parties have said they are doing so to meet requests from the UN, the African Union, the Americans or South Sudan. But they didn’t agree on it together. In this respect, the talks are now important in order to achieve a joint and firmer ceasefire agreement.

“Both sides have recognized that it’s not that easy”

ARD: Do you see any chance at all that the war will end?

Perthes: There are always ways to end a war, and all wars end eventually. We are now in a phase where both warring factions have realized that it is not easy to achieve victory over the other side. Four or three weeks ago, when I spoke to the warring factions, they said: It’s a matter of days before we defeat the other side. Now both sides have realized that it is not that easy.

And both sides have also recognized, in part, that even a military victory could result in them losing the country. Or at least a large part of the country’s infrastructure and population. And that’s why they agreed to ceasefire negotiations. But even a ceasefire is only one step towards a solution. We then need talks to restore peace and find a durable political solution for the country.

“There must be an army under civilian leadership”

ARD: Why do you think the conflict escalated at all?

Perthes: Shortly before the war began, I said in the UN Security Council: We have never been so close to a political solution in Sudan, but at the same time the situation has never been so tense. And that has a lot to do with the fact that the two warring parties here, the Sudanese army and the so-called Rapid Support Forces (RSF), were in very intensive talks with each other about how and when the RSF can be integrated into the army.

We have always said that a country that has two or three or even four, five, six armies cannot be stable. Ultimately, there must be an army under civilian leadership.

“The longer the war lasts, the more dangerous it is”

ARD: Is the conflict in Sudan threatening to become a long war?

Perthes: What we have now is a war between two armies, two armed groups. It’s not a civil war. The longer this war between the two armies goes on, the more dangerous it is because both sides mobilize social, political, ideological and tribal support.

And then there really is a danger that there will be a war with ethnic and ideological dimensions. This must be prevented and I think the only way to prevent it is to stop the fighting quickly.

“Huge Humanitarian Impact”

ARD: How bad are the humanitarian consequences of the war?

Perthes: We are already seeing tremendous humanitarian impact – after a month of war. We have a significant increase in hunger, displacement and flight. Also here in Port Sudan, where we are temporarily based as the United Nations, we are seeing a significant influx of people from the rest of Sudan because it is comparatively stable and safe here.

We have tens of thousands who have crossed the border into Egypt, people are fleeing to Chad, Central African Republic, South Sudan and Ethiopia. We assume that up to 800,000 people are trying to leave the country.

“Difficult to provide help quickly and effectively”

ARD: Is humanitarian aid reaching the people of Sudan?

Perthes: The number of people dependent on humanitarian aid has increased by several million in these four weeks. At the same time, many of the United Nations’ stockpiles have been looted. It is very difficult for us to provide help quickly and effectively. Even before the war, the UN World Food Program and other agencies regularly provided food and financial assistance to around seven million people in Sudan.

The number of those in need of support has increased from around 14 million to an estimated 18 million. This is a rapid increase with at the same time great difficulties in providing this help. It is now being organized here from Port Sudan. The challenge is getting them to the people in the combat zones. For that we need a secure ceasefire. But we also need secure transport routes so that transports are not plundered again. But help is on the way.

“The focus is now on medical care”

ARD: There is constant criticism that the UN is reacting too late and that help is getting to the people too slowly. What do you think?

Perthes: It’s always easy to say that the United Nations or other aid agencies are late. But many of the supplies that we had in the country that would have been available, for example to supply hospitals, have been looted – especially in Darfur, where employees of the United Nations, the World Food Program or the Organization for Migration have also been killed are. Aid transports were also looted. This makes it difficult to provide timely and rapid assistance. And we are now trying to get things into the country very quickly and effectively with the support of member states – including the EU and Germany.

The focus is now on medical care. The hospitals, particularly in the combat zones, are particularly badly damaged. We estimate that less than 20 percent of Khartoum’s hospitals are still fully operational. And, of course, the need for hospitals increases in a war zone because so many people have been injured and wounded.

Help from Port Sudan

ARD: The fighting in Sudan continues, most foreigners have been evacuated – you are still there: How are you and your UN team currently working under these difficult conditions in Sudan?

Perthes: We have established a small effective leadership structure for the United Nations here in Port Sudan on the Red Sea coast. Currently it is not possible to work in Khartoum or Darfur. Port Sudan here in the east of the country is the window to the world, so to speak. Here we can also coordinate the aid that comes into the country relatively effectively. Parts of the government and important civilian forces are now also in Port Sudan.

As far as possible, we continue our social and political contacts from here. This is sometimes difficult because we often don’t have internet and because there are no regular telephone connections. I am personally in constant contact with the warring parties in Khartoum, but also with civil society and the forces that are trying to help and end the war through their contacts with the warring parties.

The questions were asked by Simon Riesche and Anna Osius, ARD studio Cairo