Together, RTL and stern ex-chancellor Gerhard Schröder interviewed. He has been criticized for his closeness to Russian President Vladimir Putin. In an interview, Stern reveals to Editor-in-Chief Gregor Peter Schmidt how he perceived the former Chancellor.
Gregor Peter Schmitz, Stern Editor-in-Chief: Gerhard Schröder is in a state of emergency. This is a special situation for him. He was a chancellor who was always controversial and quite rowdy. We all remember the Agenda 2010 discussions. But of course now in parts of Germany he is seen as someone too close to Vladimir Putin, who might even be defending this war. And Gerhard Schröder wanted to correct that.
He also wanted to correct what he actually did last week in Moscow, where he was surprised by a reporter from RTL/n-tv. At the time he said he was vacationing there. It was very important to him to say that he was not on vacation there, but was concerned with energy policy. And he’s a man who’s tense, but who still has a very clear opinion.
star: Why does Schröder keep the wire to Russia?
Schmitz: He made it very clear that he met Vladimir Putin again last week, which apparently did not happen in consultation with the federal government. He then immediately said that he would meet him again immediately because he simply said, “Maybe I can make myself useful again sometime”. So that’s what he’s saying too, that he wants to play a role in the effort to bring about a peace deal.
He also says that the Kremlin wants a negotiated solution. There are of course very different interpretations of what such a negotiated solution could look like. The Ukrainian side certainly sees this very differently than what Gerhard Schröder suggested in the conversation with us. But this is how he justifies why he keeps in touch with Putin. Quite apart from that – we also asked the question, of course – whether one should break with him or whether one should break with the friend Putin, who is, after all. And then he says: “Who would benefit from such a personal distancing on my part?” He criticized the war and he doesn’t see what else he should apologize for.
Gerhard Schröder, whom both Nikolaus (Blome, the editor) and I have often met, is still a jovial type, a host. We all know his earlier Basta sayings or this “Get me a bottle of beer, otherwise I’ll go on strike here”. And you can tell that he is obviously a much older man now and, as I said, seems tense about this whole affair, you can tell that he is a man who is still probably one of the best German election campaigners history was. He really has a feeling for what worries the simple man, the simple woman.
In the course of the conversation, it was also about the energy crisis and the question of what will happen if the ancillary cost bills rise dramatically in October and a lot of people in Germany are really worried? Can I still pay for this? And then he says “I don’t want to be in the shoes of those responsible”.
He has a clear sense of what’s on people’s minds and I believe – that’s my interpretation now – that the attitude towards the Ukraine war and then maybe also towards his role towards Putin will change, because he does that Feels that people are increasingly realizing – “This is harming us”. As I said, this is now my interpretation of what Gerhard Schröder might be thinking, he didn’t exactly say it. But one gets the feeling that he expects his position to be more popular in the future than was the case in the early stages.
star: How do you get such an interview and was it conditional?
Schmitz: We stayed in contact with Gerhard Schröder for a long time. There were also background rounds, background talks from which it was not possible to quote. He has spoken to the New York Times in the past, and also briefly to the FAZ, and only individual quotes were ever released. This is really the first authorized conversation.
He also changed very little, one has to say in the authorization, which unfortunately is often the case with politicians. It was about building trust. We questioned him very critically during these hours in Hanover, because a lot of what he says simply has to be questioned critically. But it was also about saying: Gerhard Schröder can at least explain his point of view. And so this conversation slowly developed and at some point his decision also matured to release this conversation.
There were no conditions. For a long time, it was Gerhard Schröder’s attitude that he would at most release a few quotes. There was great mistrust, even though he had known the people involved for a long time. He often rants about the New York Times, which was the first to visit him. And the US media doesn’t authorize it. In this respect there was no argument about it, he already knew that it would then be a written text. He was very upset that the interviewer wrote that he drank so much white wine during these interviews. That bothered him a lot.
There weren’t really any other conditions. It was only then a persuasion process that he really said okay, I would like to appear in a conversation, which I authorize, as is customary in Germany, but where I then already focus on the entire conversation situation and also on the correspondingly tough questions set And luckily he was willing to do it. And that was actually the only condition that we had to fulfill in preparation.
You read a lot, you read a lot again about Gerhard Schröder. Of course, as I said, there were also these preparatory meetings, where you could find out a little bit about your position in the background. But in the end you can’t really prepare yourself for Gerhard Schröder, because he’s still a very agile conversation partner, and above all a very agile one mentally. So you have to get involved with him a bit.
star: What role could Gerhard Schröder still play in this war?
Schmitz: I think there are two perspectives. Gerhard Schröder’s point of view and the point of view of others. Both are, I think, somewhat biased and biased. So one has the feeling that Gerhard Schröder is still counting on it, that through personal contact with Vladimir Putin he might be able to influence him in some way.
Of course there are people who say it’s completely absurd. Harsh critics of Schröder who say that Putin would never see him as an equal, only as an employee and would at most abuse him to further fuel public sentiment in Germany and further fuel public debates.
There are certainly individuals who say it’s good to keep in touch of any kind, because of course very, very few people can still keep in touch with Vladimir Putin. And these are actually the different camps.
As I said, I believe that Gerhard Schröder believes that he could still be useful in this negotiation process at some point. In the past, it must be said, as former chancellor he has undertaken several missions, also for Mrs. Merkel, by the way, when she was still in office, where he achieved negotiated solutions. I think he’s counting on being able to do something similar again now. You have to say, of course, that the situation is much more difficult than if you were negotiating the fate of a journalist in Turkey, for example.