Situation in Kabul: “There is a certain tension here”

Thousands of Afghans fled to the capital Kabul before the advance of the Taliban, said Caritas representative Recker in an interview with tagesschau24. Aid organizations try to help with food and blankets.

tagesschau24: Here in Germany we hear the Taliban claiming one city after another for themselves. What is your impression on the spot – can you already feel how the Taliban are practically at the gates of the city?

Stefan Recker: The Taliban are not yet at the gates of Kabul, it will take a few more days. There is a certain tension here, but life in Kabul is actually going on as normal, except for the many internally displaced people who camp here on the open streets in the parks.

Thousands have fled to Kabul

tagesschau24: How many people have come to Kabul? Can that be quantified somehow?

Stretcher: It’s hard to put a precise figure. There are definitely several thousand. There have been a total of 360,000 officially registered internally displaced persons in Afghanistan since the beginning of the year, and there will have been a few more in the past few days. I assume that 10,000 to 20,000 internally displaced persons have made it to Kabul. Some of them stayed with relatives, but also camped out on the street in parks.

tagesschau24: Then how can you help these people?

Stretcher: The other national and international aid organizations that are still active here – just like us at Caritas International – plan and carry out aid projects. It is about distribution measures, food, blankets, tents, drinking water supply. This is all starting up and will continue in the coming week.

Lots of rumors – and reasons to flee

tagesschau24: If the refugees are now in the city to seek protection there, and then, as feared, the Taliban will come in a few days – what does that mean for the people?

Stretcher: I can’t tell you that. I think people fled to avoid the immediate effects of the war, so as not to become collateral damage in shootings. But they also fled out of fear of reprisals from the Taliban. There is very mixed news, but also a lot of rumors. For example, what I have heard is that the Taliban are targeting government officials and members of the armed forces who have fled. If they can’t find them, go to their families. As I said, these are rumors. We don’t know for sure, but the fact is: people are fleeing, and they will certainly have a good reason to flee.

tagesschau24: Now the Taliban don’t come out of nowhere. You definitely have supporters in the country. How do you imagine the atmosphere in Kabul when different people meet? Are you fifty-fifty for or against the Taliban gaining more power in the country?

Stretcher: It is certainly not openly stated. We have 27 national team members in our office – none of whom are open to the Taliban. However, no one is open to the current government either. I think the question of whether you are for the Taliban or not does not run through society. The Taliban are a kind of parallel society that is supported by regional foreign countries. It’s a very complex matter. But I’ve never heard of anyone here in Kabul who says: ‘It wouldn’t be so bad if the Taliban came.’ I’ve never heard that in the past 20 years.

“Much has been missed”

tagesschau24: Correspondingly, how much do people feel abandoned by the international troops because they have completely withdrawn?

Stretcher: You already feel abandoned. However, I always tell my colleagues: There were 20 years to build up the country. A lot of things were missed, both on the part of the Afghan government and on the international side. But if you point your finger at others, you point three fingers at yourself. I think, firstly, it is still too early and, secondly, it is currently the wrong situation to find out where something went wrong. That definitely has to be done at some point. It’s just not the situation for it at the moment.

tagesschau24: It seems as if Afghanistan is basically lost to the Taliban. The federal government is now threatening to stop paying development aid, especially if the Taliban should establish a caliphate. Do you think that will impress them?

Stretcher: I don’t have the quote from Foreign Minister Maas in my head. But I am sure he was referring to the 400 million euros in budget support that the German government pays out annually from the Afghan government. I don’t think he meant the development aid that is used for actual measures here – and certainly not the emergency aid that we at Caritas International are working with here, for example. That being said, I don’t think the Taliban will be too impressed by that. They want international aid, but I think that if there is a takeover, other nations will also come forward to provide financial aid.

“The aid money arrives”

tagesschau24: If the emergency aid continues, will it actually reach you and the aid organizations when the Taliban take over?

Stretcher: For sure. There are very clear auditing rules. We are obliged to spend the money properly. We are audited here in the Kabul office every year. There are audits at our main office in Germany. That is very clear: the corresponding sums go to those in need

tagesschau24: What is your impression: Have 20 years of international military operations in Afghanistan brought anything?

Stretcher: I can’t comment on the military operation. I am not a military expert. I work for an aid organization. From the point of view of an aid organization and also of development cooperation, the past 20 years have definitely brought something. Starting with farmers in the country who can now harvest more, a wider range of crops that have improved their diet and income. About women who have an income by now going to work as a teacher, as an engineer, as a doctor to the still very lively civil society, the very lively press landscape. Something has already happened. As far as the Military Council is concerned, I cannot and cannot say anything.

The questions were asked by André Schünke, tagesschau24. The interview was slightly adapted for the written version.