Situation in Afghanistan: “New order still pending”

In an interview, journalist Franz J. Marty reports that little has changed in everyday life in Kabul. But many people are afraid and expect the Taliban to pass very conservative laws.

tagesschau.de: How do you experience the atmosphere in Kabul – has everyday life changed, is there any sense of the excitement surrounding the airport in the city?

Franz J. Marty: It is relatively quiet in the center of Kabul. Most of the stores are open; However, banks and exchange offices are still closed, which is a problem. You don’t feel any major change on the streets and daily life continues to take its course. There are still women to be found, albeit fewer. And the Taliban, at least so far, have not issued any new dress codes or stipulated that women must be accompanied by a male family member. Of course, women wear a headscarf, and often a burqa too, but that was no different before. You can still see people in Western clothing who – as far as can be seen – have not yet been bothered by the Taliban.

But that does not mean that the situation is completely normal. Many people are terrified, many do not leave the house, some only in traditional clothing. That was a strength of the Taliban even before that. Many are so afraid of them that they behave as they are supposed to behave – without the Taliban having to say so. A kind of anticipatory obedience. This is no coincidence. The Taliban are not squeamish and just because they are holding back at the moment doesn’t have to stay that way.

Many Afghans also worry that the economy will crash and see this as one of the biggest problems. They say that the Taliban may be able to keep the country safe in their own way, but that there will be no work.

Some return to their hometown

tagesschau.de: Do people from other parts of the country keep coming to Kabul – in the hope of being able to leave the country one way or another?

Marty: That doesn’t seem to be the case, or at least not often. There are even reports of the opposite: that people who fled to Kabul before the Taliban’s victory are returning to their homeland. For example, I’ve heard of people who fled Kunduz to Kabul, but are now going back or want to go back because they believe the situation is better there than in Kabul.

tagesschau.de: How dangerous is the situation for local aid workers?

Marty: It depends on the individual case. For some, depending on what exactly they have done, there is a risk, for others there is no or very limited danger. In general, there are currently no indications that the Taliban would systematically persecute and threaten people who have worked for aid organizations. Employees of aid organizations are less at risk than, for example, the thousands of previous employees of the Afghan secret service or the special forces of the security forces. The Taliban fought them bitterly and are therefore hated by many Taliban.

tagesschau.de: Do you expect the situation to change once the Taliban have consolidated their power in the country?

Marty: Yes, there is little doubt about that. The Taliban’s first goal was to drive the foreign forces out of the country. They practically achieved that. The second goal is the establishment of an Islamic system according to their ideas. And it is as clear as day that they will change the constitution because it is not Islamic enough for them, even if it mentions Sharia as the highest law. In all likelihood, they will also rebuild the state system and drastically change laws. It may not be as ultra-conservative as it was in the late 1990s. But they have always emphasized that the current order is not Islamic enough for them.

Differences from region to region

tagesschau.de: What do you hear from the provinces – can you also observe this transition state there?

Marty: The old order has been overthrown, the new one is still pending. There is no new government yet, but the Taliban have started appointing provincial governors. I hear from many places like Feisabad or Herat that the Taliban have largely let daily life go on and have not ordered any major changes. In some rural areas, however, the Taliban have passed new laws prohibiting women from going outside without a male escort, music and smoking. Such laws and their effective enforcement appear to vary from area to area.

tagesschau.de: Can this also have something to do with different currents within the Taliban that are still struggling for supremacy?

Marty: The Taliban are not monolithic. But all in all, they seem pretty united so far. The reports of frictions were arguably more wishful thinking by the previous Afghan government or international armed forces hoping to fragment the Taliban. So far, at least, there has been little evidence that the Taliban could split up into several factions. In 2015 there were disputes, but the resulting very small splinter group was never able to significantly endanger the main group.

The Taliban may have deliberately left their demands vague in order to avoid disagreements within the group. Whether and to what extent this will change now that the Taliban are in power now and have to deal with annoying details remains to be seen in the future.

“There will be new rules”

tagesschau.de: What is your personal situation – can you work unhindered?

Marty: I am currently doing a lot of TV interviews, so I’m rarely on the street. So far, when I go outside, I have no problems. I am easy to recognize as a foreigner, but the Taliban that I passed have not stopped me or even paid attention to me. I hear from foreign colleagues that the Taliban were initially open to them and freely provided information. In the meantime, however, there has allegedly been an instruction that they should no longer speak to journalists without permission. The Taliban have also made some comments on media work and announced the creation of a media commission with their participation.

Afghan journalists have so far been able to report more or less freely. That doesn’t mean that there weren’t any problems. There were reports that journalists were prevented from working or that cameras were destroyed. In Jalabad, two journalists who filmed anti-Taliban protests were also apparently beaten. How that will develop further remains to be seen. But it can be assumed that the Taliban will issue stricter rules for journalists. How strict is currently unclear.

tagesschau.de: Are you planning to stay?

Marty: Yes. Apart from the airport, the situation is surprisingly calm. The Taliban have declared that diplomats, humanitarian organizations and journalists should stay. Of course, they don’t do this out of the kindness of their hearts, but because they benefit from it. For example, they hope to gain a certain international recognition from foreign journalists through reporting. What these guarantees mean beyond the day is not known. But at the moment I don’t see myself exposed to any significant threat.

The interview was conducted by Eckart Aretz, tagesschau.de