Michael Kretschmer needs only eleven seconds until the first but of the evening. Of course, Russian President Vladimir Putin is a warmonger, he said on Tuesday at the Dresden Schaubühne, great injustice is happening in Ukraine, a breach of international law, but you have to keep things separate. “I had a very considered relationship with Russia,” says Kretschmer, referring to 15 years of experience in the German Bundestag. It was always clear to him that “this country cannot be influenced from outside.” This sets the tone for an evening on which the Friedrich-Ebert- and Konrad-Adenauer-Foundation under the title “Germany and Saxony in the changing times. What needs to be done now” for the debate between Saxony’s Prime Minister from the CDU and his deputy Martin Dulig invited by the SPD.
An organized public exchange of blows between the head of government and the deputy is considered rather unusual outside of Saxony. Here, however, it seems almost logical for two men who have built their political careers on the principle of speaking. Kretschmer invented the “Saxon Talk”, Dulig traveled through the Free State with his kitchen table to get into conversation with people. Both have been in government together since 2017, sometimes more, sometimes less harmoniously. And if you’re already cross-eyed on the biggest political issue of the time, why not at least sell that as part of a plan and reactivate a campaign format?
In recent weeks, Kretschmer has warned in a rising tone of voice about the consequences of the Russian war in Ukraine. He has criticized the EU’s oil embargo, questioned the supply of heavy weapons and said Germany still needs Russian raw materials. He received applause for this, from the AfD and from the left Sahra Wagenknecht, and a lot of public rejection, from his party leader Friedrich Merz, for example. “Not the opinion of the Union,” said his deputy publicly and added that Kretschmer was also isolated in the group of Easterners. According to the SPD, there were also debates within the Saxon state government about Kretschmer’s statements. That’s why they’re happy that Kretschmer accepted Dulig’s offer to “talk and discuss all the topics mentioned in peace.”
If he was impressed by his party leader’s word of power or the dispute in the cabinet – in addition to the SPD there are also the Greens in Saxony – then Kretschmer didn’t show it on Tuesday evening. There must be a difference between support for EU members or NATO countries and Ukraine, he says. And to applause: “If you make every conflict in the world your own, then that’s the downfall,” as if the declaration of a NATO defense case was about to take place. Dulig’s objection that it is a question of whether Germany accepts that the European peace order is being called into question is just as studiously ignored by Kretschmer as his question of how he intends to persuade Ukraine and Russia to enter into negotiations.
“The only thing missing is that German soldiers are deployed there”
He prefers to formulate more gloomy forecasts or ask questions himself: “How will this war end?”, for example. For Kretschmer, the answer from large parts of German and European politics that Ukraine must win this war or at least that Putin must lose it is not. “I say no, he has to come to a standstill with negotiations,” the applause in the hall grew louder, 350 people came, the event was fully booked and admission was free. Kretschmer is good at presenting himself as a voice against the majority opinion at one moment and warning against black and white thinking at the other. Germany must also negotiate, and that is hardly compatible with the delivery of heavy weapons. More weapons meant a longer war and greater danger for Germany as well. Then Kretschmer addresses the audience directly: “What is missing, ladies and gentlemen, that we too become a party to the war?” He answered the question himself: “All that’s missing is for German soldiers to be deployed there.”
Kretschmer seems seriously outraged, keeps tapping his index finger on the desk and repeating his most common sentence “It doesn’t work that way” a little louder each time. Dulig contradicts with the gesture of the patient educator, says that Ukraine shouldn’t be sacrificed and literally implores Kretschmer that the great challenges of the new era can only be mastered together. He persistently repeats his question as to how Kretschmer intends to get the warring parties to the negotiating table. Unsuccessful.
This pattern of conversation is also repeated when it comes to energy. Kretschmer (“I speak as an engineer”) complains about the sharp rise in gas prices and the actions of the federal government, Dulig calls for social compensation and hardship regulations. After 100 minutes, Kretschmer would like “many requests to speak from serious people” for the fall and is certain “that the institutions are strong enough if we trust them”. Dulig says with a sideways glance at his prime minister: “We can argue about ways as long as we are clear about what is actually going on”.