Psychologist Philipp Lioznov about the crowds at the anti-AfD protests

In Germany this weekend, hundreds of thousands took to the streets in anti-right-wing demonstrations. The latest developments surrounding the AfD have triggered a wave of protests that has not been seen for a long time. But what is causing masses of people to come to the scene now of all times? A conversation with the psychological psychotherapist Philipp Lioznov about the psychology of the masses and why we should treat AfD voters with empathy.

Mr. Lioznov, the anti-AfD protests have reached a new dimension in the last few days. Psychologically speaking, how do mass movements even come about?
Philip Lioznov: This is multifactorial. One reason certainly lies in needs theory. It assumes that we have various basic needs that we unconsciously want to satisfy. This guides our actions. During demonstrations, for example, our basic need for connection is served. When we see hundreds of people taking to the streets for a cause and joining them, we feel like we belong to a group. The other way around, it can also be that our basic need for autonomy drives us into action because we don’t feel seen by the parties currently in power and we want to regain the feeling of self-determination through protest. Thirdly, increasing self-esteem certainly plays a role for some people. When I’m part of a group, it also increases my self-esteem because I can supposedly act stronger and more powerful than when I’m alone.

Couldn’t these needs also lead to moving away from… Shift to the right get carried away?
Unfortunately. It always depends on which values ​​you pursue. And which leaders you trust. But populists actually use the knowledge specifically to manipulate their followers and drive them in a certain direction.

You spoke of several causes. What else brings us into the masses?
For me as a trauma therapist, our natural reaction to a threatening situation plays a particularly important role in this context. When people feel attacked – in their needs or their safety – they react by either fleeing, fighting or playing dead. The people we see on the streets these days are more like Team Combat Reaction in this respect.

The shift to the right and the AfD’s poll high are not a new topic. But there weren’t nearly as many people on the streets before. What has changed?
For some people, I think the limit is now simply full. We all have limited capacity to endure negative news and accept impending changes. And of course it can also be contagious when such a movement suddenly arises and you see it everywhere in the media.

How exactly do the images of the anti-AfD protests affect us psychologically?
Images trigger very different emotions in us. Especially when it comes to protests, the basic attitude is important. If I have a positive attitude towards protests and the reason for the demonstration, then the images could inspire me and even motivate me to take to the streets myself. It can also be that a certain level of empathy leads to a kind of perspective taking. On the other hand, it can of course also make you angry if you have a very different political mindset. Such large demonstrations in particular quickly trigger black and white thinking. So you’re either for it or against it, but it’s not that simple.

So would you say the demonstrations can actually make a difference?
I think so. Demonstrations always create a certain awareness in society. Just the fact that we are both talking about it now is a win for the protesters. Because that’s what it’s all about: attention to an issue that we should no longer turn a blind eye to. I see a good chance that the current wave of protests can get some people back into action who have long since buried themselves in a certain lethargy. That people who have become hopeless gain new courage to stand up against the right. However, the same thing is currently happening on the other side.

In what way?
You can influence people who are a little lost in these uncertain times in different directions. This means that the psychology of the masses can also be dangerous if used with the wrong motives.

How does the psychology of crowds work?
The theory behind this comes from the psychiatrist Gustave Le Bon. He talks about a collective mindset that arises when you join a group. And we humans are herd animals. That is, our opinions and behavior are unconsciously influenced by the group we are in, while our individuality is suppressed. So in the protests, on the one hand, we have affiliation and, on the other hand, the blurring into a diverse mass of demonstrators who are all fighting for the same cause. But the collective mindset is also predestined for ideologies to spread. It is extremely important that every participant knows why they are part of the group.

The AfD has gained a number of supporters in the past few months. Why do you think right-wing ideologies are gaining popularity?
On the one hand, there have been a lot of crises recently. This causes a certain level of unrest for many people, fears and worries grow and cultural and demographic changes cause fundamental uncertainty. We humans have difficulty dealing with the feeling of such permanent instability because it goes against our basic need for security. So at some point frustration arises, we build up anger. And it is precisely this feeling that right-wing parties take up and use. But the issue of loneliness certainly also plays a role. I am researching this and am increasingly discovering that the growing individualization of our societies is increasing the longing for traditional values ​​and conservative models of life among some people. And you will find them above all in the election program of AfD and Co.

Anyone who sympathizes with the AfD does not automatically have to have right-wing ideas. Now two fronts are currently forming: pro-AfD and anti-AfD. How can we respond to the people who are on the right-wing fringe?
With respect, empathy and dialogue. For most of these people, fear is at the forefront, so I would like to advise them to show a certain amount of empathy and try to be understanding, of course within the scope of what is possible. We must not forget that we are often dealing with people who feel hurt and forgotten, who have worries and insecurities, who are looking for support. And then the motto is: educate, educate, educate – and do so as respectfully as possible.

So you’re advocating that we talk more to the right?
Absolutely. I like to compare this with my work as a psychotherapist. My patients sometimes come to me with very different attitudes. They think of themselves that they are worthless, that they have failed in life and that they cannot be loved. Our first impulse here is often to argue against it – and many of my colleagues do that too. They then advise the patient to change their way of thinking. But we forget that exactly this attitude is the patient’s reality at that moment, whether we can understand it or not.

And how do you deal with such patients?
I approach it more with understanding and try to find out how the patient came to think this way. There is always a story behind it. It works the same way with the shift to the right. Nobody just wakes up one morning and suddenly wants to vote for the AfD. There is a process behind it, injuries and experiences. If we just say that one thing is right and the other is wrong, then we are making things far too easy for ourselves. It’s about wanting to understand. This is the only way we can get closer to each other again.