Jens Spahn brushes off AfD and BSW – “What they have in common is that they want to sell us to Putin”
Jens Spahn (CDU) distributes against left and right at “maybrit illner”.
Source: ZDF/Svea Pietschmann
Is the traffic light to blame for the strengthening of the political fringes? At “Maybrit Illner” top politicians from the AfD and the newly founded Sahra Wagenknecht alliance meet for the first time in a TV talk. Meanwhile, Jens Spahn comes under suspicion of populism.
Dhe weakness of the traffic light government benefits the margins. 18 percent say they will vote for the AfD in the federal election, according to the results of a Forsa survey this week. The recently founded alliance Sahra Wagenknecht, or BSW for short, would have 5 percent.
This would mean that the self-declared alliance for “reason and justice” would enter the Bundestag – unlike the FDP and the Left. “Germany in crisis – longing for simple answers?” Maybrit Illner asked MPs Sahra Wagenknecht (BSW), Beatrix von Storch (AfD), Kevin Kühnert (SPD), Jens Spahn (CDU) and Spiegel journalist Melanie Amann.
(from left) Beatrix von Storch (AfD), Jens Spahn (CDU), Maybrit Illner, Kevin Kühnert (SPD), Sahra Wagenknecht (BSW), journalist Melanie Amann
Source: ZDF/Svea Pietschmann
Beatrix von Storch began, almost befittingly, by denying the much-noticed Correctiv research into a gathering of right-wing extremists around the Identitarian Martin Sellner. The AfD politician asserted that there was no discussion of “deportations” there. “What brought people onto the streets in large numbers did not exist. This is a campaign.”
The aim is to scare the population. Correctiv merely processed what “everyone could have heard before,” countered Melanie Amann. “Millions of remigration” is the declared goal of many AfD MPs’ party colleagues.
Dispute over “Correctiv” research
“You have to decide now whether you want to cover up and deny everything,” demanded Kevin Kühnert from the right-wing populist, “or whether you want to join your nationalistic wing.” “Chief ideologist” Björn Höcke publicly stated that Germany could do without 20 to 30% of the population. Beatrix von Storch again denied that the Potsdam meeting had discussed the deportation of German citizens based on ethnic characteristics. Von Storch relativized Höcke’s “nationalistic thinking” criticized by Spahn as an individual opinion. There is nothing about this in the AfD program.
Beatrix von Storch neither answered the legitimate questions from Spahn (“Why are you in a party with someone like that?”) and Amann (“Is Mr. Höcke violating the party program?”), nor did Illner insist on a response. “Any textual exegesis” could be carried out, Wagenknecht said, referring to the AfD politicians Höcke and Krah. What was crucial for them was the contribution of the SPD and its traffic light partners to the electoral success of the right-wing populists. The population is voting for the AfD because of the “dramatically bad economic figures” and not because there are so many “right-wing radicals” in it.
Sahra Wagenknecht sees the AfD’s poll successes as being due to “dramatically poor economic figures”.
Source: ZDF/Svea Pietschmann
Kühnert defended himself against this. It is by no means the case that the electorate is simply “dissatisfied” and could be won over with “better policies”. “We have an increasing proportion of people” who “have completely right-wing radical worldviews,” assured the SPD general secretary. Jens Spahn, however, blamed the federal government. Wagenknecht and von Storch are reaping the “fruits of wrath that the traffic light sows and nourishes,” said the CDU presidium member. The AfD wants to take Germany out of the EU, while BSW wants to take Germany out of NATO. “What you have in common is that you want to sell us to Putin,” he brushed them off.
“The fire extinguisher is with the government,” says Spahn
Jens Spahn repeatedly appealed to Kühnert to respond to the mood in the country and to no longer rule against a majority on issues of citizens’ money, climate protection and migration. “People always talk about the firewall,” he emphasized, “the fire extinguisher is with the government.” The fact that the CDU politician acted as an arsonist himself, so to speak, when he called for irregular migration to be stopped using “physical force” if necessary may explain Illner’s follow-up on the matter. He countered that it was “the most normal thing in the world” and “a given” to control the border.
While Spahn complained that “normal state actions” were being scandalized, Amann accused him of spreading “populist nonsense” that sounded like AfD demands ten years ago. Kühnert responded more conciliatorily to the question of whether Spahn was heating up the migration issue. It was “not at all reprehensible” to talk about returns, he assured.
Between 300,000 and 400,000 people are required to leave the country, and over 70 percent have protection status. Kühnert emphasized that “we will not refrain from giving protection to people” who are being persecuted and need help.