“It’s best if you say afterwards that I’m a warmonger,” says Spahn indignantly
Jens Spahn (deputy parliamentary group leader of the CDU, left) and Kevin Kühnert (general secretary of the SPD)
Source: © WDR/Oliver Ziebe
Icy atmosphere between Jens Spahn (CDU) and SPD General Secretary Kühnert at “Maischberger” – both on the subject of citizens’ money and pensions. When it comes to Scholz’s foreign policy, things get personal between the two.
DCitizens’ money should be abolished and instead replaced by a new basic security with strict sanctions – at least that is the CDU’s current proposal. The focus is particularly on so-called total refusers; their funds should be reduced by up to 100 percent. The CDU also wants to reform pensions and raise the retirement age from 2031 in relation to average life expectancy. The SPD sharply criticizes both proposals from the opposition party.
That is the starting point with which Sandra Maischberger started her talk show on Wednesday evening. The author Amelie Fried, the “Zeit” correspondent Mariam Lau and Gudrun Engel, the head of the ARD studio in Washington, sat at the commentary table. The SPD General Secretary Kevin Kühnert sat opposite the deputy Union parliamentary group leader Jens Spahn in the discussion. Maischberger also spoke to the satirist Dieter Nuhr.
Anyone who can work should work – this is how the CDU’s line in the current social debate can be summarized. Jens Spahn raised the question of what incentives would be provided by the social security systems. Despite nice words from both politicians at the beginning of the conversation, the mood between him and Kevin Kühnert was icy.
Kühnert was frustrated by the current debate about the abolition of citizens’ money. It is treacherous that the CDU goes public with proposals for a reform of basic security, but the only thing that sticks with people is a change of name and the discussion about a small number of total objectors. “This is more of a PR stunt than helping to solve the labor shortage in Germany.”
The Federal Constitutional Court had ruled that sanctions through social cuts of up to 100 percent for total objectors were not legal. The author Amelie Fried also pointed this out in the show.
Kevin Kühnert in conversation with Sandra Maischberger
Source: © WDR/Oliver Ziebe
“I think we’re currently shooting sparrows with shotguns,” said Kühnert. Meanwhile, serious people are ready to tamper with the constitution (the Secretary General was referring to his discussion partner). Spahn had suggested in January that “we should change the constitution” if a general abolition of the current citizens’ allowance was not covered by the case law of the Federal Constitutional Court. Spahn rejected Kühnert’s accusations of setting the wrong focus of the debate with the total objectors. It’s not just about the total objectors, but about the Germans’ sense of justice, said the former health minister. This is currently “severely disturbed” among the Germans. Spahn cleverly avoided his suggestion at the time to change the Basic Law.
This was followed by a change in topic to pensions. This will increase by over four percent in the second half of 2024 – incomprehensible for Spahn. He accused the SPD of acting for party political advantage in an economic crisis. He believes it makes sense to raise the retirement age by one month from 2031 if the average German life expectancy increases by one year. Until now, the CDU’s usual proposal was to increase the retirement age not by one but by four months in the same situation, Kühnert noted.
Kühnert also considered Spahn’s proposal to be unfair to those who work physically and would therefore have a lower life expectancy than citizens with an office job. “Kevin Kühnert can do these sentences very well,” said Spahn, laughing at his counterpart’s rhetoric and pointing out that disability pensions apply in such cases. In addition, more incentives would have to be created to encourage people to continue working beyond retirement age, for example through tax allowances.
Most recently, Spahn and Kühnert clashed over the Chancellor’s Russia policy. Chinese head of state Xi Jinping spoke out against the use of tactical nuclear weapons in 2022 after Olaf Scholz had previously traveled to Beijing. “You dismissed it because you thought the concept of diplomacy was ridiculous back then,” Kühnert shot sharply in the direction of Spahn and the CDU, recalling that the visit was criticized as a gesture of submission. Spahn reacted visibly with emotion: “It’s best if you say afterwards that I’m a warmonger.” Kühnert’s level of discussion is only a reflection of how discussions would be conducted in the coalition.