interview
The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba has in the daily topics again pressed for a NATO invitation. He does not see the danger that the member states would be drawn into a war. It’s not about immediate accession.
daily topics: Mr. Foreign Minister, we are on the verge of a possibly groundbreaking summit of NATO – the club that does not yet want to let your country in. Will President Zelenskyy go to the summit tomorrow only if Ukraine receives a formal invitation to join NATO?
Dmytro Kuleba: Well, Ukraine was promised entry a few years ago, in 2008. Since then, however, very little has been done by NATO to make this membership a reality. And we believe that now is the best time for such a decision to extend the invitation – with the understanding that this accession can only happen once the prerequisites are right. So we’re not talking about instant membership, that’s a very important point. We now have 48 hours and negotiations are ongoing with our partners on this issue. The Ukrainian President will make a final decision on this based on the results of the negotiations over the next few hours.
daily topics: From Berlin, at least on Monday morning, it was said that it was much too early for Ukraine to be officially invited to join NATO. Like the USA, for example, Germany is worried about being drawn into a war.
Dmytro Kuleba: No. We appreciate everything that Germany and the US are doing for Ukraine to support us in this war. On this point, however, we have a different opinion than Berlin, because we believe that the invitation itself will not draw anyone into any war. From a political and legal point of view, an invitation is a political message to Ukraine to be allowed to join the alliance and shows that the process is underway. The alliance case under Article 5 only applies if Ukraine is a member country. We are aware of that. And so there is no accession until everyone is ready. Those are two different things.
I call on the German government not to repeat the mistakes made by Chancellor Merkel in 2008, who spoke out clearly against Ukraine’s integration into NATO. The result was even more aggressive behavior by Russia – see Georgia, hostility towards the West and the current aggression towards Ukraine. All of this goes back to the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, when countries were not brave enough to make that historic decision to ensure the Euro-Atlantic zone enjoyed security.
daily topics: But because Russia is so unpredictable, some member states like Germany and the US remain very skeptical about Ukraine’s soon membership in NATO as a whole. What exactly do you expect from the German Chancellor?
Dmytro Kuleba: Ukraine’s NATO membership is a path towards peace. Once Ukraine can join NATO, there will be no more wars in Europe. That’s what it’s all about. Because Russia will no longer dare to attack the alliance. True, NATO membership cannot stop this war, but it can prevent future wars in Europe. And European politicians have nothing to lose by extending this invitation and allowing Ukraine to join NATO.
Putin is currently unable to respond in any meaningful way to such an invitation. He has his internal problems to deal with. That’s why I say: If we allow fear to shape our decisions, then that’s a strategy that doesn’t work. We really appreciate what Germany is doing to help us on behalf of all of Europe. But we have to be ambitious. We must remember the past mistakes of the 2008 Bucharest Summit and avoid them in the future.
daily topics: Mr. Kuleba, US President Biden is proposing to grant Ukraine the same security guarantees after the war as Israel does – that is, the promise of regular arms deliveries and protection against attacks. Why is that not enough for you?
Dmytro Kuleba: Why does everyone always want to put Ukraine in a separate pot? Last year we heard that we don’t need EU membership, no, what we need is a special status. In the end, despite all the discussions, Ukraine was granted candidate status. Everyone rejoices and says that Ukraine will become an EU member state. And now we are witnessing the same story with NATO. Why are people always looking for alternative solutions? Why can’t we simply develop a holistic solution for a European security architecture in which Ukraine sits on the NATO boat? Ukraine is not a burden. Ukraine is a win. Because without our army, the eastern flank could not be defended at all.
We couldn’t correct the past mistakes of Germany and other Western European countries, and now we’re defending the eastern flank. Therefore we have to look at it rationally and not in the spirit of fear, old strategies and concepts. When we talk about security guarantees, President Biden and Chancellor Scholz – and we appreciate it – have both said that Ukraine deserves security guarantees to defend against Russian aggression – understanding that those security guarantees last until to the moment when Ukraine joins NATO. Therefore, these security guarantees must not be seen as an alternative to NATO membership, but as something filling that vacuum between now and the moment Ukraine becomes a member. This is a very important detail that we must not forget.
The interview was conducted by Caren Miosga.
The interview was edited and shortened for the written version.