Interview on the PISA study: “The focus on the weak is neglected”

The poor performance in the PISA study shows fundamental problems in German schools, says education expert Köller. Smart offers are needed to systematically support weaker students.

tagesschau.de: Does the poor performance of German students continue throughout the entire new PISA study?

Olaf Köller: Yes, unfortunately we have to say that there have been significant losses in reading, mathematics and natural sciences compared to 2018. The losses in Germany are also greater than the OECD average. Countries around the world have lost overall. To give just one example: in mathematics we lost 17 points on average in the OECD, and 25 in Germany.

For us, the consequences of the pandemic are obviously compounded by several other effects; certainly also some of the refugees who have not been able to be integrated. But I think we now also have a significant teaching quality problem.

Estonia as a role model

tagesschau.de: What are other countries doing better in their education policy?

Köller: We have been able to observe since 2012 that the student population in Germany has changed significantly. We have more immigration than other countries in the world. In 2011, we pointed out from educational research that we need to do much more to better support young people who grow up in unfavorable environments. The call was already loud in 2011: We must bring more support to schools and daycare centers in the future.

Unfortunately, this reputation faded away at the time. The efforts have not been increased, so that today we are faced with the situation – perhaps more so than in many other countries – that we do not offer sufficient support for the particularly disadvantaged students in Germany.

tagesschau.de: Why doesn’t Germany manage to copy the success formula of countries like Estonia?

Köller: What we saw very clearly here: how to bring the students’ lives into the classroom, how to let them use their smartphones and their digital devices. We still find it difficult to bring modern didactic concepts into the classroom. We are still discussing banning smartphones. We also struggle to adapt to the interests that today’s students bring to school.

One has the impression that we are teaching without the interests of the students in mind. The example of Estonia also shows us how weak students are dealt with there. You take them out, you then give them special support. We also miss out on this: systematically supporting weak students with clever offers.

Teacher shortage is not a German phenomenon

tagesschau.de: What many parents in this country will definitely notice is the massive shortage of teachers and the resulting loss of lessons. Does that have anything to do with the result?

Köller: The shortage of teachers is not a German phenomenon, but a Europe-wide, almost global phenomenon, which in many countries also has demographic reasons. I think countries in Scandinavia are also affected by this, and almost all European countries are affected.

But we also have a problem that many of the teachers are not really qualified to deal with a very rapidly changing student body. This is particularly shown by the results in the non-high school sector, where colleagues find it very difficult to work with particularly weak students, especially if they have no teacher training.

“There is a lack of awareness of the size of the problem”

tagesschau.de: Educational opportunities and social background are closely related in Germany. We have known about this problem for more than 25 years. Why don’t we manage to permanently remove this hurdle?

Köller: I think there is still a lack of awareness of the size of the problem. Example of a daycare center: We know that we lose many children before they even start school. We have children who are two years behind in learning compared to privileged children when they start school. That means we also have to make the daycare center a place of learning.

When we have students in primary school, we have to be aware that we first have to diagnose the majority of them intelligently: How behind are they coming to school? And then we have to systematically support these students. This continues when they move on to secondary level one, when they enter the non-high school sector.

We need to sensitize schools and teachers to make smart diagnostics to really see where the students are. And then make tailor-made support offers so that these students are able to learn in all subjects.

tagesschau.de: But we also hear again and again from education politicians: “Yes, we have recognized the problem and we are going down this path.” Then someone in another federal state says, “No, we’d rather go this route.” Are we having too many ideological debates?

Köller: Of course, we are all now hoping for the federal government’s Starting Opportunities program, which is scheduled to start next year. Presumably initially with 1,000 schools, so-called focus schools. Of course, we hope that there will then be a cross-state consensus to do something for the schools, especially for the hotspot schools.

But what is important to me is that with such programs – like the Starting Chances program, into which billions will flow – you have to make sure that you really promote the students’ learning performance and what we call self-regulation . On the one hand, the students acquire basic skills – reading, writing, arithmetic. But they also have to learn to regulate themselves in the learning process so that they can work independently.

It is therefore important that the money goes into such programs, that we do something good for the students when they learn, that we support them in their learning and then achieve higher educational returns.

tagesschau.de: We are talking about the fact that there is a drastic drop in performance internationally. Could it be that many people in this Western society are so fed up that they don’t want to put in any more effort and that this might also be passed on to young people?

Köller: There’s a lot to be said for that. Above all, we see the dramatic decline in performance at the high school, and the high school does not now bear the burden of integrating immigrant children. The high school does not ensure the inclusion of children with special educational needs, but is actually a student body that is comparatively easy to teach. And yet performance is declining dramatically.

It may be that students are full. It may also be that the lessons have not yet adjusted to how we can reach these students there. At least the current mathematics teaching does not seem to be able to possibly reach this, as you say, fed-up generation.

The interview was conducted by Gerrit Derkowksi for tagesschau24. It has been edited for the written version.