Hendrik Holdmann (star) If you were to give another speech in the Bundestag and were allowed to call on Parliament – and you are known for always finding very clear words – what would you write in the Bundestag and call out to the people what needs to change?
Hans Christian Ströbele Yes, they shouldn’t lie so much to the colleagues. They shouldn’t pretend that they want to implement the right policy, even though they know very well: Ultimately, I can’t want that because it means stepping on too many people’s toes. This is a very big phenomenon, a very bad phenomenon. It’s not just Donald Trump with his missteps, it’s a general phenomenon that many politicians, most of them have a split relationship with the truth.
Hendrik Holdmann (star) Climate movement then and now: What are the differences?
Hans Christian Ströbele Yes, the movements in the 70s. There were always social movements. But the 1970s are comparable, when people took to the streets against nuclear power, but also for environmental protection and all these related issues. And among other things, this movement was a reason or an origin of the green party. Afterwards they sat down with other representatives of the movement, the peace movement, above all, but also the women’s movement, the gay movement and many others, and said: We’re not going to found a party now, absolutely not. But we are forming an association that is striving to get into the parliaments so that we can also raise our content in the parliaments and fight for it.
Hendrik Holdmann (star) What can “the young”, I say now, learn from “the old” and perhaps also take with them? How can protest really be effective?
Hans Christian Ströbele First, you can learn not to get discouraged and not to cry. We have now held three large-scale demonstrations and now our goals must also be implemented, but you need a long line, you have to drill very, very long, thick boards. And even if it often looks like nothing will come of it, you shouldn’t be discouraged, but have to say: Now more than ever. Now let’s come up with some new forms of demonstration to get things back on the agenda. The parties must be forced not only to keep this up, but they must be forced to legislate accordingly. And they just have to feel it on election day if they haven’t done so for four years.
Hendrik Holdmann (star) Mr Ströbele, you just said that there were a lot of protests from Fridays Future. So much has not happened yet. You now have to prove that something is happening. But you also need staying power, you just said. You can now say, with all due respect, that the hut is on fire if you look at the global climate. Actually there is no more time. Is the Fridays for Future protest not provocative enough, not radical enough?
Hans Christian Ströbele No signs, no regulations, people have to decide for themselves. They are on the street, they have to implement it. And I think we are very much in agreement on the goals, how that should now be organized in detail. I don’t want any advice on that. It was completely different with us. Because with us the whole environment was against it, all the people around us who were standing on the side of the road. While today it really is the case that the parents are demonstrating, suddenly the grandparents are also demonstrating. Totally unimaginable back then. And that there were also major arguments with the police when a particular demonstration was to be prevented and when people tried to get at a construction site fence for a nuclear power plant, for example, then there were really violent arguments. None of that is the case today, because this movement is supported by the great mass of the population. And they have that advantage over us, i.e. us who demonstrated at the time. But that’s also a big problem, because I don’t think there’s a recipe for how to move between them properly.
Hendrik Holdmann (star) Nevertheless, I would like to harp on about this point again, because I just find it so exciting. Would it be good for the future movement of the current climate movement if there were more headwind?
Hans Christian Ströbele I think that would motivate a lot of people who might be thinking, well, we’ve done our job, done. And maybe get them back on the streets, because you mustn’t forget that demonstrations, especially demonstrations, have led to disputes, but also something that can be mobilized. So when people say: Not at all now, I’ll go in there now. They also have that with the others or with the conspirators, who also take to the streets with and with many people, in that sense, yes, too. So if you ban it and try to use state force against it, that’s counterproductive.
Hendrik Holdmann (star) Germany has moved a bit in the direction of more climate protection. And yet the really big reforms, I would say, have not materialized, especially in the last few years. Perhaps also the necessary reforms that would be needed to stop climate change. Would you say your climate protest was a success story? Or did you rather fail? Did you miss your goals?
Hans Christian Ströbele No, it was definitely a success. Because you have to see the situation back then. The people who took to the streets for the climate or for the environment were discredited as weirdos, as people from the woods or people wearing slippers or something like that and were ridiculed. Smiles in the best case, sometimes fights. Well, there are worlds between what has happened since then. But it is obvious that not much has happened in recent decades apart from big words. But you mustn’t forget: the Greens weren’t in government at the time either. And unfortunately there is the unfortunate parliamentary principle that everything that is proposed by the opposition is rejected by the other parties per se, i.e. without looking at what is actually in it. So when the Greens say that we did it, and that we also submit a lot of motions on the climate in the Bundestag, then it was easy because it was the Greens, because you can never agree with the opposition. This was not implemented as a coalition.