interview
Status: 01/31/2023 4:34 p.m
CDU politician Maassen describes the allegations of anti-Semitism against him as “far-fetched”. Doron Kiesel from the Central Council of Jews explains in contrasts-Interview to what extent Maaßen’s statements are reminiscent of “Nazi-speak”.
contrasts: How do you rate the statements by the former President of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Hans-Georg Maassen, recently?
Doron Pebble: The harshness with which Herr Maassen argues today and the strange images he uses from the treasure chest of the National Socialist field make it clear how he thinks and how he probably thought before. We just didn’t notice this. Today we know all the more that we have to pay attention to language, to images, to statements, to attitudes, to convictions – especially when we transfer positions of this kind to politically influential people.
To person
Doron Kiesel is Director of the Jewish Academy of the Central Council of Jews in Germany. Kiesel studied social and educational sciences at the Universities of Jerusalem, Frankfurt am Main and Heidelberg and was a professor for intercultural and international education at the University of Applied Sciences in Erfurt. Since 2012 he has headed the educational work of the Central Council of Jews.
contrasts: For example, Mr Maassen denounces “globalists”. What do you mean with that?
Pebble: This is a proven anti-Semitic figure. In the context of this conspiracy ideology, Jews are usually described as people who are not down-to-earth and predictable, but who orientate themselves globally. Accordingly, they pursue their interests in the different spheres in which they live. They strive for financial, political or cultural power. They are incomprehensible and are perceived as a danger worldwide.
The subjects of this projection are mostly Jews, because for historical and economic reasons they actually could not settle on a national territory, but after their dispersion in different countries and regions – i.e. globally – reside. Presenting this as a danger is a well-established anti-Semitic worldview, in which Jews are accused of a lack of loyalty to those in power and those in power. At the same time, they are accused of wanting to exploit the German population.
contrasts: Maassen himself rejects allegations of anti-Semitism against him as false. He also complains that accusations of anti-Semitism are the “discursive death knell” in Germany.
Pebble: This phrase is well known. Anti-Semites today are not positioned to be proud of their anti-Semitism. People who argue openly in a racist or anti-Semitic manner today will quickly experience here in Germany that they are excluded from social discourse. Mr. Maassen does not formulate his position explicitly anti-Semitically, but his language reveals his mental attitude.
contrasts: What do you mean by that?
Pebble: If we get involved in his language games, in the choice of his words and the images he uses, then we can very well see that the vocabulary he uses is one that has a very brown, i.e. National Socialist, tradition. He doesn’t shy away from formulating racist beliefs in a way that makes them recognizable as genuine Nazi slang. In doing so, he assumes that those political groups have exactly the intentions he is pursuing.
He believes that his political opponents see “an eliminatory racism against whites” and babbles about a “red-green racial theory”. It is obvious that a person who characterizes his environment in this way will sooner or later also declare the Jews to be his enemy, since they have decided to turn against every form of racism. This man has left the democratic field and moves with increasing joy in the folkish milieu.
contrasts: To what extent do you consider Maassen’s statements to be problematic?
Pebble: I don’t just find his attitudes problematic. They are a systematic questioning of our social order. He stigmatizes people by accusing them of inhuman practices and thus implicitly calls for persecution and exclusion.
He formulates reproaches and accusations and claims a monopoly to judge others who do not follow him. This perspective has its roots in the National Socialist race theory, which became the death sentence for European Jewry. That is why we are so disturbed when we witness Maassen’s performances and statements.
contrasts: What danger do you think it poses?
Pebble: Mr. Maassen knows that he can count on a solid core of supporters in the Federal Republic. This group is not yet particularly relevant politically, but we know from other countries how the political landscape can change under certain economic, political or demographic conditions. A former president of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, who acts as a political fire accelerator, is an expression of the fact that the ice on which our democracy is based is still quite thin.
contrasts: What do you think about the fact that Maassen was President of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution for six years?
Pebble: The horror lies in the fact that over the years we have obviously not managed to recognize that someone in such a position wants to abolish precisely this constitutionally anchored system that protects us and that is also a prerequisite for us Jews to live here to be able to This is a critique of one’s own reception of political reality.
The interview was conducted by Daniel Laufer from RBB. It was abridged and edited for the written version.