The constellation promised controversy. Bavaria’s Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann (CSU), 66, met Ludwig Hartmann, 45. And thus the top candidate of the party that is the cause of much evil for the CSU: the Greens. Surprisingly, the two politicians agreed on a lot on Monday evening in the Nuremberg press club on the occasion of the SZ event entitled “CSU and Greens – The duel of the great adversaries”.
Even if not on the topic of migration. Herrmann defended Prime Minister Markus Söder’s (CSU) demand for an upper limit of 200,000 refugees per year in Germany. “We have always said very clearly that there are too many,” said Herrmann. The Ukrainian refugees were looked after with great commitment, more than 150,000 in Bavaria alone. But it would be “a little difficult” if even more people came from all parts of the world. Herrmann once again called for more financial support from the federal government.
Meanwhile, Hartmann criticized Söder’s initiative as a “failure”. The CSU had already chosen the issue of migration as a central issue in the election campaign in 2018. Shortly before this year’s election, she is putting it back on her agenda – Herrmann emphasized that this is not happening for strategic reasons, but because the issue is currently acute across the EU. Hartmann didn’t buy this explanation and said he didn’t want to run an election campaign “at the expense of refugees.” Instead, he would like, and the CSU man and the Greens then agreed, that more would be talked about success stories of refugees in Bavaria. Both also spoke out in favor of pragmatism when dealing with refugees, for example when it comes to access to the labor market. And that rejected asylum seekers would have to return to their countries of origin.
Hartmann, on the other hand, criticized the state government’s planned chip cards for payment, which are intended to replace the issuance of cash for rejected asylum seekers – and, according to Herrmann, not “to annoy people.” But to prevent misuse. Some refugees would use the money to buy drugs and alcohol or pay off debts to smugglers.
It will be seen on October 8th whether the CSU can improve its approval among the population with these plans. Most recently, the party only got 36 percent in the BR Bavaria trend. Hermann was still confident. There is great satisfaction with the government’s work. “Now we just have to get all the people who are happy with us to vote for us,” he said. But he didn’t want to make a prediction.
Opponent Hartmann had this ready for this, although he did not give any exact numbers. But announced that there would be one of the worst results for the CSU and one of the best for the Greens in Bavaria. At the moment, however, they are lagging behind their demands of more than 20 percent; in the Bavarian trend they only came to 15 percent.
“It’s no longer about doing, but about taking down”
While Herrmann appeared to be statesmanlike as usual, Hartmann was more aggressive. According to his observation, there is an “iron frosty coldness” between Söder and his deputy Hubert Aiwanger (Free Voters). With his early commitment to the FW as a coalition partner, Söder put himself in a “straitjacket” from which he could not get out. Aiwanger could dictate the conditions to the CSU in exploratory sessions. Hartmann called Söder’s situation “quite a dilemma.” The Green politician advised him to keep his options open in addition to the FW, wait for the election date and consider what was best for the country, the people and the CSU. “It’s not my job to strengthen the CSU. But I’m pretty sure that the CSU isn’t doing itself any favors with five more years with Hubert Aiwanger at its side,” said Hartmann.
Herrmann emphasized that the majority of people in Bavaria believe it is right not to fire the deputy prime minister despite the “terrible” leaflet found in his school bag. He spoke of the “clear objective” of continuing with the FW. At the same time, Herrmann recalled the explorations into a Jamaica government within the federal government, which had already progressed well in 2017 but ultimately failed. Subtext: There are no guarantees in politics. Was he opening the door to the Greens just a tiny crack? Hartmann would be happy. “Maybe we have more in common after all,” he said.
What was particularly striking in the press club’s magnificent marble hall was the objective and constructive atmosphere for discussions led by Katja Auer, team leader of the SZ Bayern editorial team. Even when Hartmann criticized the tone in which members of the state government also spoke. “It’s no longer about doing, but about putting down,” he said to Aiwanger – but also to Markus Söder, given his regular verbal attacks on the Greens. “I don’t have to comment on my Prime Minister’s style,” replied Herrmann. However, just like Hartmann, he noticed a heated atmosphere and a brutalization of the language. This starts on social media. “And at some point someone thinks they have to move from word to action,” said Herrmann. Hartmann only had to experience this himself on Sunday, when a man threw a stone at him and his co-leading candidate Katharina Schulze at an event in Neu-Ulm.
One thing was certain after this evening: Even if the coalition negotiations hoped for by the Greens don’t come to fruition, the leaders of the two parties will probably not have spoken to each other for the last time this year. Hartmann invited Herrmann and Söder to eat saddle of venison together. The Interior Minister was at least not averse.
There was an error in the address when the event was first announced. We apologize for that.