Attacks on federal elections: “We are very vigilant”

Corona conditions, destroyed polling stations in the flood areas, disinformation campaigns on the Internet and the risk of hacker attacks: Federal Returning Officer Thiel on real and potential problems in the federal election.

tagesschau.de: This will be the first federal election under corona conditions. What does that mean for you as the chief organizer? What is different from normal?

Georg Thiel: First the hygiene regulations. It doesn’t usually exist in this form. In addition, preparations for the election started much earlier. In concrete terms: small polling stations are exchanged for large ones so that there is enough space. And we anticipate a significant increase in postal votes.

tagesschau.de: Are there enough voluntary election workers?

Thiel: We need 650,000 to 700,000 people to help. And experience has shown that it is difficult to find enough volunteers, especially in the final phase. We therefore made sure early on that they could move up in the vaccination sequence. So far I have not heard any acute calls for help from the regional election officers.

tagesschau.de: What about in the flood areas in Rhineland-Palatinate and North Rhine-Westphalia? How and where can people vote there?

Thiel: Most of the polling stations in the flood areas no longer exist. The constituency 198, i.e. Ahrweiler, is particularly affected. Many, self-affected people in the electoral offices also have other worries than organizing an election. And many affected people have other worries than choosing. The electoral authorities there can, for example, set up tents and containers from the THW as makeshift polling stations or use other new suitable locations. The state election lines are now being fine-tuned.

tagesschau.de: In many places, you can’t even deliver election notifications …

Thiel: That’s right, we have to go other ways. Posting posters, media calls, newspaper advertisements. Everyone should know how and where and when to vote in the affected areas. And you can also vote without voting notification.

tagesschau.de: And voting in the makeshift polling stations is just as safe and secret as it is in the polling station?

Thiel: Of course. There is a locked postal ballot box and a screened voting booth. Everything like at the polling station.

tagesschau.de: The flood disaster and the rising corona numbers: Could the federal election also be postponed if necessary?

Thiel: That would be a matter for the Federal President, not the Federal Returning Office. But we are well equipped and believe that we can cope well with a higher incidence. All the elections this year have shown that it can be done. Especially since the numbers were even higher in the spring of the state elections. We exchanged experiences with the state election officers and asked about any problems in polling stations with mask refusers. But that didn’t exist. Most of the teams have now been vaccinated – well, we are well prepared.

tagesschau.de: Have you also upgraded your staff? If people get sick or have to be quarantined?

Thiel: We have set up A, B and C teams at the Federal Returning Officer. If one of the A-team gets sick, the B-team moves up, etc. The electoral authorities will also increase their teams for postal voting. Because it’s not just the counting, requests for postal votes also have to be processed quickly.

tagesschau.de: What percentage of postal voters do you expect?

Thiel: We expect a significant increase. It can also be a doubling. It is difficult to give a percentage because the regional differences are so great. In the constituency of Würzburg, for example, 45.7 percent voted by postal vote in the last federal election, while in the eastern German states the proportion was in some cases 13 percent. One thing is certain: there will be considerably more.

tagesschau.de: There are repeated attempts to stir up doubts about the legitimacy of postal votes. Corresponding campaigns could also be observed in the USA.

Thiel: Postal voting is safe. The postal vote counts just like a vote in the polling station. And: The counting takes place in public. I am saying this again so clearly because rumors to the contrary keep circulating. Postal voting has been in place since 1957. And so far there has never been any evidence of manipulation to such an extent that it would have influenced the election result. Although the proportion has increased.

tagesschau.de: Elections are always a potential target for hackers and cyber attacks. How are you prepared here?

Thiel: We are preparing for an attack like this to happen on election day. But we are well prepared for that too. For example, we have the Federal Office for Information Security (BSI) on our side and have done a great deal to train the municipalities. The interest there is huge. More than 1400 municipal representatives from all over Germany were present at the previous meetings on the topic of “Securing the electoral process”. It is also important that the IT is up to date everywhere – the hacker attack in Anhalt-Bitterfeld had an alarm effect for all municipalities. That raised everyone’s awareness again.

tagesschau.de: So cyber attacks on the election are a realistic risk?

Thiel: We are very vigilant. When I started we had a risk list of 40 points. Today that list is much longer – including that of countermeasures. In the days leading up to the election and on election day itself, our experts watch very closely what is happening on the Internet and hopefully recognize possible attacks in advance.

tagesschau.de: How do you assess the risk of disinformation campaigns in the context of the election?

Thiel: There are. They are real. There it is spread on the net: “Postal voting is not safe.” Or: “The ballot is different.” We have been observing this for months – and it will probably increase until autumn. We then try to counter it immediately and refute these false claims with facts. So far we have succeeded quite well. Also because we have increased the social media team in particular.

tagesschau.de: Parties that are partially observed by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution are also allowed to participate in this Bundestag election. Why are they allowed to participate?

Thiel: Because we only check formal criteria as to whether a party is allowed to vote. The election committee does not examine party programs. Only the Federal Constitutional Court can examine whether the goals of parties are constitutional. For us, formalities such as support signatures count. And this formal test is difficult enough as it is.

tagesschau.de: But is this separation still appropriate?

Thiel: The Federal Returning Officer and the Federal Electoral Committee do not make laws, but implement them, so this question should be addressed to the legislature, i.e. to parliament.

tagesschau.de: What will the Federal Returning Officer do on September 26, 2021?

Thiel: I’ll get up at 5am as usual. In the early morning I inquire whether everything is going according to plan in the Reichstag building, i.e. whether all systems are working and all functionaries are on site and no one is sick at short notice. Then we visit some polling stations to thank the helpers personally and accompany the Federal President when he thanks the helpers. In the afternoon, voter participation will be announced by 2 p.m. Shortly after 6 p.m. we look at the polls’ estimates and two hours later we look at the first results. It is important that everyone stays fit, because now the real work begins. The results are received and have to be checked for plausibility, which can then take until the early morning.

tagesschau.de: What problems can arise?

Thiel: There are always unforeseen problems: a country does not report a constituency, the constituency chief is currently unavailable or something is stuck in a quality loop. Because it is like this: A result is not simply entered into the system, but must first go through many quality loops. Now we notice an inconsistency, but the electoral team has already gone home and has to be brought back.

tagesschau.de: When do you expect a preliminary official result?

Thiel: When the day is slowly breaking. That would be around 5 or 6 o’clock.