interview
Czech Republic President Pavel surprised Ukraine’s supporters with his ammunition initiative. In the ARD interview He explains when which ammunition purchased on the world market should arrive – and draws parallels to the beginning of the Second World War.
ARD: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky warns that the military situation in Ukraine is becoming increasingly difficult. How long can Ukraine hold out in this war?
Peter Pavel: Ukraine is demonstrating great resilience as it has faced extraordinary difficulties since the beginning of the conflict. Russia is undoubtedly significantly stronger than Ukraine.
The West supports the country technically and financially, but we are getting to the point where human resources and support among the Ukrainian population will increasingly be the limiting factors.
In this situation – and I have been advocating this for a long time – it is essential to support Ukraine by all means so that it can make it clear to the Russian aggressor that there is no point in continuing the war; that Russia will not achieve any further military successes. Because as long as Russia still has any hope of success, there is no reason for Russia to hold peace talks.
“Five to six-digit number of grenades”
ARD: The Czech ammunition initiative has caused quite a stir in Europe. In Germany there was talk of “Czech grenades” or even “Pavel grenades”. When will the first of these shells arrive in Ukraine? And why is it taking so long?
Paul: The more parties know about the initiative, the more competition arises. On the one hand, it was necessary to make the initiative public in order to get the support of other countries, but on the other hand, we also revealed our cards, which Russia is now of course taking advantage of. This is also why the initiative is not progressing as quickly as we would have liked.
I, along with our Prime Minister Petr Fiala, assume that the first 180,000 pieces of ammunition will be delivered in June, and there are already contracts for a further five to six-digit number of grenades.
ARD: These purchases must be paid for. And it seems that the financing has not yet been completely clarified. Has part of the West already lost hope of Ukraine’s victory?
Paul: I wouldn’t say he has lost hope, but throughout the war in Ukraine the West has been very cautious in its support. Right from the start, there was an effort not to escalate the conflict.
There were long debates about each new stage before it was finally delivered. If we had skipped this period of reflection and risk assessment, Ukraine would have received this aid months, perhaps even years earlier and the situation could have been different.
We should learn from the past and provide assistance now to the fullest extent and as quickly as possible to prevent Ukraine from losing more territory and lives.
“How wrong everyone was!”
ARD: On May 8th, the Czech Republic celebrates the anniversary of the end of the war and the victory over National Socialism. To what extent did the Russian war of aggression change this day?
Paul: We should remember how wars arise, because there are many parallels between the origins of World War II and the conflict in Ukraine. If we look at the example of what was then Czechoslovakia, the German minority in the border areas of Czechoslovakia served as a pretext for Hitler’s invasion. In the case of Russia and Ukraine, it was the Russian-speaking minority in eastern Donbass.
And just as recently with Russia, we didn’t want to admit that Hitler could actually start a war on such a scale. At the time, Czechoslovakia’s Western allies believed they could save peace by making concessions to Hitler. And how wrong everyone was!
Even today many people tend to say: ‘Let’s give in to Putin, let him give him a piece of Ukraine, and the war will be over and there will be peace.’ Maybe we should look at history and learn from it for today.
ARD: Many of the younger central-eastern European EU member states, such as the Czech Republic, are taking a much more decisive stance towards Russian aggression than countries whose EU membership has lasted longer. Is this a moment of European emancipation for the eastern EU states?
Paul: To a certain extent, yes, because Central and Eastern European countries have direct experience with the Soviet Union and Russia. And they are not particularly positive. Most Western countries, on the other hand, only have indirect experience – they tend to see Russia as a normal European state.
Russia describes itself as a Euro-Asian civilization. Russian values are completely different from ours. Therefore, it would be very naive to approach Russia from a position of concession, from a position of trying to reach a mutually beneficial solution. To this day, Russia only knows “won” and “lost”.
In other words, if Russia is to succeed, the others must lose. And that should be a warning to us.
The interview was conducted by Danko Handrick, correspondent in the ARD studio in Prague