Exchange of blows between Sahra Wagenknecht and Karl Lauterbach: The “Anne Will” panel talked about the question: Who is to blame for the rising incidences? Unvaccinated? Or do vaccinated people also contribute to this?
For two weeks, the statement by Bayern football professional Joshua Kimmich has been making headlines and debates – including in yesterday’s ARD panel discussion by Anne Will. The question of how useful 2G regulations and increasing pressure on unvaccinated people are, was debated. The left-wing politician Sahra Wagenknecht sat in the group as a representative of those who had not yet been poked – which prompted moderator Anne Will to inquire about the reasons. Wagenknecht announced this indirectly, but not without first pointing out that she found it problematic to have to justify personal decisions publicly – especially on public television.
Studies have shown that vaccination protects against severe disease and hospital stays, but vaccinated people are still contagious. Whether one wants to bear this health risk as an unvaccinated person is a personal decision.
Wagenknecht also raised concerns that the vaccines were based on new procedures, the long-term side effects of which are still unknown. The left-wing politician cited the vaccination against dengue fever as an example. It was only later found that the risk of a fatal outcome was higher in vaccinated people – according to Wagenknecht, evidence that side effects can still occur long after the vaccine has been approved.
Karl Lauterbach: “Let me”
“I find it presumptuous to say we know what this will do in five or ten years.” In addition, it is questionable that all manufacturers insist in their contracts on relinquishing liability for possible consequences and thus transferring them to the state if there are no long-term consequences at all. “If there are no long-term consequences, why are there such clauses?” Exerting pressure on the unvaccinated is not expedient.
At this point at the latest, SPD health expert Karl Lauterbach, also a guest, could no longer hold back. All colleagues from the major universities have confirmed that long-term side effects can be ruled out. “But not the manufacturers, otherwise they wouldn’t have …”, Wagenknecht tried to answer an objection that Lauterbach promptly choked off: “I’ve just been listening to you patiently, now let me.” He described Wagenknecht’s objections as a “robber pistol”. “We’re not hiding anything here,” emphasized Lauterbach. It has never happened that a side effect occurs late. It is more realistic that rare side effects only occur when many people are vaccinated. Nevertheless, these have always been recognizable early so far.
Lauterbach did not accept the example of dengue fever. The fact that vaccinated people had a more fatal outcome cannot be attributed to the vaccination. Lauterbach did not explain this phenomenon in any more detail.
Sahra Wagenknecht criticizes vaccination protection
Wagenknecht’s reasoning that the vaccines were new and therefore hardly researched was declared by Lauterbach as “wrong”. The vector vaccines from Astrazeneca, Johnson & Johnson or Russian and Chinese vaccines have always been used. They are very harmless, and cerebral vein thrombosis is an early side effect that only affects one in 25,000 people. The vaccines have been used a lot since the end of last year – much more than in clinical trials. The probability of discovering side effects is even higher in this case.
“You shouldn’t make people feel insecure when we ask for vaccinations. The vaccines are safe,” emphasized the SPD health expert. Wagenknecht’s suggestion that the vaccination was a personal decision, Lauterbach agreed, but at the same time he described the prick as an “act of solidarity” to protect others in society.
“That would only apply if the vaccination protects against infecting others,” commented Wagenknecht. More recent studies from Israel, Qatar and Great Britain have shown that vaccinated people, when infected, have the same viral load as unvaccinated people. “The only debatable question is how long are they infectious?” The knowledge that vaccination protection is decreasing is also new. “You don’t know a lot of things when something is new, that’s no embarrassment, but you shouldn’t portray the people who have concerns as people with crazy reasons,” said Wagenknecht furiously and pleaded for the decision to be vaccinated Left to people.
At least now, the debate has turned into a heated exchange of blows. Lauterbach accused Wagenknecht of mixing medical details and different facts. He couldn’t leave it like that. In the first six months, people who had been vaccinated twice were exposed to a significantly lower risk of becoming infected, he said. However, he also admitted that the vaccination protection decreased after six months. Nevertheless, the viral load in vaccinated people is lower than in unvaccinated people. This also reduces the risk of infection. “These are huge differences,” stated Lauterbach.
Who is putting the health system at risk?
Next point of contention: the health system. Wagenknecht criticized the fact that intensive prayers had increasingly been reduced since the second wave. In addition, she accused Lauterbach of having been responsible for the lower load limit of the hospitals. After all, years ago the red-green government began to make the facilities “profitable”, to commercialize them and thus to “save up to nothing”. Because the health system is also affected by a blatant lack of care, people are forced to behave health-consciously so that the hospitals are not overloaded. “It is a scandal that after one and a half years of Corona we have fewer hospitals, fewer staff and fewer intensive care beds,” criticized the left-wing politician.
Lauterbach then spoke up, visibly annoyed, and asked Wagenknecht to stick with the matter. A vaccination is appropriate, even for 30-year-olds – because they also ended up in the intensive care units and suffered from Long Covid. Long-Covid is controversial, Wagenknecht held against it.
“I don’t want to advertise the vaccination,” she said. Immunization is particularly advisable for the elderly. But the whole debate is morally charged and heated. With regard to the health system, she is annoyed that the unvaccinated are portrayed as a danger, but the grievances in the hospitals are not remedied.
For Lauterbach there is another solution: 2G and booster vaccinations. “You can philosophize about what went wrong in the hospital sector ten or twenty years ago,” he commented on Wagenknecht’s criticism. To deal with the current situation, only 2G and a booster vaccination can help. Lauterbach demanded speed. You wouldn’t get very far with the doctor’s surgeries alone; instead, the vaccination centers would have to be reopened. A 2G solution would also protect the unvaccinated.
“The question is who is endangering whom here”, Wagenknecht ventured one last step. There were also massive outbreaks at 2G events. 43 percent of all symptomatic new infections were reported among the vaccinated “and vaccinated people also go after the party where the unvaccinated are,” said Wagenknecht. “So who do you want to protect from whom here?” She asked Lauterbach one last question. He didn’t want to move from his point of view. “The unvaccinated cannot be left to their own devices.” Because of the unvaccinated people in the intensive care units, other important operations would have to be canceled. There was an agreement on Sunday evening if only behind the switched off studio camera.
Source: “Anne Will“