The situation on the border between Ukraine and Russia seems to be getting worse again. Spoke about the role of Germany, the EU and Putin star with the chairwoman of the defense committee, FDP politician Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann.
Ms. Strack-Zimmermann, are you worried about the situation in Ukraine and Russia?
It’s a very serious situation. Russia has over 100,000 troops on the eastern Ukrainian border. This is worrying because Russia appears to have no respect for the fact that every country – including Ukraine – has to decide for itself which alliance to cooperate with. The European security structure is the guarantee and prerequisite for the fact that we have been able to live together peacefully for decades. We have to register – and not just since 2014 with the Russian annexation of Crimea and the invasion of eastern Ukraine – that Russia has repeatedly tried to exert military pressure on its eastern European neighbors. We see this with great concern, but also with the clear attitude that we will not tolerate this behavior.
Putin apparently wants to rebuild Russia into a world power of earlier years. Do you share this assessment?
Russia has a relatively small gross domestic product compared to the size of the country. It corresponds in extent to that of Italy. This means that Russia has major economic problems and the people there lack a lot. Militarily a giant, economically a dwarf. Putin distracts from the domestic situation. It’s a well-known method: if there are problems at home, you take care of foreign policy in the hope that the people will then come together. Putin obviously lives in the past. The history of the last 20 years is always brought out in order to shape the future. He wants there to be two spheres of influence again: that of the Russians and that of the Americans. An absolute no go. I honestly wouldn’t have thought it possible that I’d ever experience that in my life.
What can the West, what can Germany do to prevent Putin from expanding his power beyond the borders? Can you offer him anything?
We have conversations with him in different formats. The NATO-Russia Council has met for the first time since 2019 and EU defense ministers have just met in Brest. Discussions are also taking place at the level of the OSCE, of which the USA and Russia are members. But it’s bizarre: Putin is playing with fire and we should now think about it and make him offers so that he doesn’t burn his fingers. Talking to each other is fundamentally correct. It is also very good that Russia’s request is not accepted at all levels. In addition, it must be a matter of course that there are discussion formats in which Europe is involved when the USA and Russia talk about Europe.
Vitali Klitschko recently said on CNN that although everyone is talking about Ukraine, the country was not even included in the NATO-Russia talks.
It is therefore an important sign that Foreign Minister Baerbock is leaving for Kiev to exchange views with the Ukrainian government before she travels to Moscow. Ukraine needs to know that NATO stands by its side, even though Ukraine is not a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
It is very important to Vladimir Putin that there is no further eastward expansion of NATO with Georgia and Ukraine. Can you even imagine Ukraine joining?
It was accepted that there is an eastern buffer between Russia and NATO member territory. But that shouldn’t be set in stone. It is also interesting what is happening to another Russian border neighbor as a result of the aggressive Russian behavior. Finland shares a 1,300 km border with Russia and has so far acted in a non-aligned manner. A political discussion about becoming a member of NATO is now flaring up in the country due to concerns that Russia could also act aggressively towards the Finns. So Putin achieves the opposite of what he wants. It is driving those who have hitherto acted neutrally into the arms of NATO.
What role can Nord Stream 2 still play as leverage?
The American President has declared that nobody has an interest in waging a war. Nobody in Europe really wants that. But Putin must know that the risk and price of military action are increasing. This is the only way to keep him from aggression. The destructive Mephisto corresponds to his psyche. He laughs at dialogue when there is no real strength and determination behind it. There are currently many talks on de-escalation. But, of course, all options will have to be discussed as to the consequences of Putin’s threats to the West. This also means that he is threatened with severe economic sanctions. Angela Merkel has always claimed that Nord Stream 2 is purely a private sector issue – of course that is nonsense. This gas pipeline is a geostrategic issue. Russia has a great interest in Germany getting started with Nord Stream 2, after all Germany is a large gas consumer. Under these circumstances, however, launching Nord Stream 2 is a completely wrong signal.
It keeps coming up that a problem at European level is that people don’t speak with one voice. How do you get everyone more on line?
27 countries sometimes have different perspectives. However, I find it problematic that the EU countries have not yet had a stringent common line in foreign and security policy. That is why Putin keeps trying to divide and destabilize Europe. This also includes the hybrid attack by Belarus to transport refugees to the border with Poland in order to put pressure on the EU. This would not have happened without Russia’s consent.
Would you like more leadership from Germany and Chancellor Scholz?
Due to their economic potential, France and Germany will play an important role. Much more should have come under the German EU Presidency. That will now be the task of the new federal government.
However, Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock communicated very specifically and directly on the matter.
We very much welcome that. It is generally good to speak clearly and unambiguously. Clear announcements without beating around. I am optimistic that the new federal government will find a good way together with its partners.
Do you think that under Putin a trusting relationship with the West can be restored? What course must be set for this?
We should always seek an open exchange with Russia if we want to continue to live in a peaceful Europe in the future. But one thing must be clear: there will be no softening or even change in the European security structure with us.