Presidential Advisor Podoljak: “Corruption is our ‘front’ inside”

Ukraine is hoping for progress from the meeting with the EU Commission in Kyiv. in the ARDinterview, Presidential Advisor Mykhailo Podoliak explains that he sees corruption in the country as an “internal front” that needs to be fought.

tagesschau.de: An EU summit in Kyiv: Is that just a strong symbol or what are you hoping for concretely from the Ukraine-EU summit on Friday?

Mykhailo Podoliak: This is of course a very important event. The summit will reaffirm that there is a European coalition that fully supports Ukraine. In addition, the summit will create understanding of the need for Ukraine to be fully integrated into the European Union.

Also because Ukraine is a key element of the European system in terms of values ​​and the price it is currently paying for the opportunity to be free and democratic. And then, of course, it is necessary to talk about what conditions we have already achieved and what conditions still need to be met for Ukraine’s accession to the European Union.

“We will take all necessary steps”

tagesschau.de: The EU has set various requirements for Ukraine’s EU accession. How do you intend to achieve this by 2025?

Podoliak: Right now we have a main task. It consists of inflicting a military defeat on the Russian Federation. Because that will significantly increase our skills and opportunities afterwards. That means as a winner we will get even more emotional support from European countries.

Of course, we also have logistical plans, sectoral plans for the state to be more compact, less corrupt, more transparent, and we will take all the necessary steps that are necessary for the state to do that.

Incidentally, these steps are laid down in an agreement between the European Union and Ukraine. And then there is an emotional background: After Russia has lost the war, its influence on Europe will be significantly reduced. Russia will have to allow many countries to feel freer and give them much greater opportunities.

“We cannot afford to tolerate corruption”

tagesschau.de: You mentioned it yourself, corruption is still a big problem in your country. The cases of the past week have also shown this – for example in the infrastructure and defense ministries. How specifically do you tackle the problem?

Podoliak: Good question. This is a fundamental problem, also for Europe, because there are no ideal states and, unfortunately, no ideal state systems either. In some places, people want additional opportunities that are not theirs. And use their administrative positions to do so. And this is not only the case in Ukraine.

But we cannot afford to tolerate any form of corruption here at the moment. That is the principled position of President Zelenskyy, and it is ours too. The state says that in fact we have two fronts: the first is the outer, and the second is the inner. And war cannot hide the need to find officials who are both ineffective and corrupt, and then punish them.

tagesschau.de: Because of the war, a lot of money is currently flowing into Ukraine – from the EU, but also from other partners. Is the fight against corruption even possible in this time of war?

Podoliak: It’s such a philosophical question. Because to be honest, it seems to me that there is no right time to fight corruption. Either you are effective, professional and honest, or you are prone to corruption. It doesn’t matter when you’re like this. And it even seems to me that the opposite is the case. Because we mustn’t lose the trust of our partners now, that’s very important.

Incidentally, there was just a statement to that effect from the United States Department of Justice. This states that they monitor the use of financial resources very intensively and do not find any systematic violations. That doesn’t mean that violations don’t happen at different levels, and that doesn’t mean, I stress again, that we will condone this or that corrupt official. There are no untouchables. And we talk about it openly with our partners.

tagesschau.de: Some experts say it’s a problem that the Department of Defense hasn’t taken responsibility for all that happened. The deputy secretary of defense just resigned. But nobody really took responsibility.

Podoliak: I agree with you that it needs the maximum effective response. But that’s a matter of time. We can’t just blame a person for stealing. That has to be legally proven. For me this is very important. There were clues from society. And the state didn’t pretend we didn’t hear them.

There were immediate public political resignations. That’s a reaction. In addition, investigative measures were initiated on the spot. They are currently still running. And it seems to me that today, tomorrow or in a short time there will be legal consequences for people who have allowed themselves to do something illegal, like in the Ministry of Defense mentioned. And these actions will, once again, be transparent and public.

You’re absolutely right, you can’t just say “we removed them”. If there is evidence, they must be accountable for it under the legal process. And so it will be. The President is very tough on that.

“There will be an aviation coalition”

tagesschau.de: Ukraine cannot become a member of the EU until the war in the country is over. Do you think that will be the case by 2025?

Podoliak: You see, it’s fundamental that the war ends in 2023. This requires a certain amount of weapons. We talk about it on different platforms and we have very well structured negotiation processes. Right now we have a tank coalition. I have no doubt that literally within a short period of time we will have a missile coalition, I mean in terms of long-range missiles.

Maybe it’s a bit more complicated, but we will definitely have an aviation coalition because we need fighter jets and drones. This is a weapon of war. That’s our strategy. Our strategy is to significantly shorten the time of war. Also, we want to save the maximum number of lives of our people. And it is imperative that Russia’s expansion comes to an end. This is important for Europe. Russia must lose.

We say that this is not even a question of territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. It’s about the decriminalization of political relations in Europe and generally about the criminal influences, the corrupt influences of Russia in Europe. We are absolutely aware of what needs to be done for this. We are also aware that if we carry out some reconstruction of the state apparatus as such during the war, we will be able to talk about joining the European Union much earlier than 2025.

That seems to me to be factually and emotionally correct. We should get together immediately after the war – better: after the defeat of the Russian Federation – and talk logistically about the possibility of Ukraine joining the European Union and the military alliance as quickly as possible. That will also be important for Europe because those are its values. Europe will show respect for the price Ukraine is paying today for Europe’s right to freedom. This is very important.

tagesschau.de: The anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine will soon be upon us. February 24th has already been charged in advance. What are you expecting around this day?

Podoliak: What we always expect from the Russian Federation. cynicism, hypocrisy. Maybe missile strikes, maybe drone strikes, and maybe an intensification of hostilities in certain areas. What can you expect from this country? We tell our partners about it all the time. Don’t listen to what Russia says. Russia always works the same and always rely on fear.

They keep repeating narratives to instill fear. Ukraine has decided not to care what Russia is doing. We are interested in what we do. And we have to go to our occupied territories, recapture them, get to the borders. Regardless of whether it will be an anniversary or any other date.