At “Caren Miosga” the stage belonged to former Federal President Joachim Gauck. He had clear words to say about the AfD. However, he did not want to speak of a “Nazi party”.
On Sunday evening after the state elections in Brandenburg, Caren Miosga discussed the question with the former Federal President: “What will become of Germany, Mr. Gauck?” Before discussing the future, the moderator took the opportunity to ask the Rostock native about two of his most famous quotes from the past.
Guests at “Caren Miosga” were:
- Joachim Gauck, retired Federal President
- Julia Reuschenbach, political scientist
- Steffen Mau, sociologist
“There is a bright Germany that presents itself here in a shining light compared to the dark Germany that we sense when we hear about attacks on asylum seekers’ accommodation or even xenophobic actions against people,” Gauck said in his role as Federal President in 2015.
Miosga wanted to know from Gauck whether he felt his term “Dark Germany” was confirmed in view of the large number of AfD voters in the East. Gauck made it clear that he had never meant East Germany by “Dark Germany”. “That is a lie that is eagerly spread by the far right and the far left,” said the former Federal President.
What he meant by “dark Germany” was more likely those who reacted to foreigners and everything that made them feel insecure with hatred and resentment and did not even shy away from murder. In contrast to this were the people who respected human dignity. “We have a majority of them,” stressed Gauck, making it clear: “This has nothing to do with East and West.”
Caren Miosga puts Gauck to the test
With regard to Germany’s asylum policy, which was also one of the core issues in the election campaign in Brandenburg, Miosga recalled another Gauck quote from 2015: “Our hearts are wide. But our possibilities are finite,” he said at the time in connection with the large influx of refugees.
Miosga wanted to know from the 84-year-old whether he would phrase it differently today and specifically asked whether Gauck might say: “We have now reached the end of our possibilities.” The theologian’s answer was clear: “No, of course we have not,” he explained and added: “We feel like we have reached that point.”
The time has come when politicians need to listen more to district administrators and mayors – those who are dealing with the real problems of asylum policy, said Gauck. He also made it clear that in 2015 he had not intended to give grist to the mill of those who are xenophobic.
Instead, he wanted to ensure that the debate about problems of asylum policy was not only held at the local bar or on the right-wing fringe, but in the middle of society.
Gauck wants more “sympathizers” as ambassadors for democracy
In addition to the short trip to the beginnings of the asylum crisis, Gauck also gave Miosga an assessment of the current situation. With regard to asylum policy, Gauck saw several problems. The “centre forces” must think more carefully about which solidarity measures will make them lose acceptance among voters when developing their political programs, he explained. Because: If decisions are made “out of sheer goodwill” that trigger fears in the population, this plays into the hands of the populists.
In addition, more personalities are needed to encourage people, said Gauck. “People who are popular from the middle of society” – for example from the areas of sport or culture, who can show people the great advantages of an open society, was his idea.
Non-politicians are often “more popular than our politicians,” Gauck said, justifying his proposal.
What would Pastor Gauck say?
Against the backdrop of their recent election success in Brandenburg, Miosga repeatedly talked about the AfD on Sunday evening. Miosga wanted to know from Gauck whether politicians who described the right-wing populists as a “Nazi party” were right.
“The mood is rather depressed” – Reporter on the AfD election party
01:09mins
“No, they don’t!” the former Federal President answered firmly. Although there are Nazis in the AfD, he admitted, there are Nazis all over Europe, said Gauck. “The problem is not that an overwhelming number of voters in Europe want Adolf Hitler back,” he explained.
Much more important is the fact that people feel a longing for “authoritarian leadership and subordination” instead of wanting to help shape society themselves. Neglecting this and instead concentrating on the “Nazi question” would be a “serious mistake,” said the theologian.
Miosga wanted to know from Gauck what he would preach to people today if he were still working as a pastor. Both the pastor then and he today would encourage the population “not to just sit on the sofa and wait,” but to defend democracy themselves, explained Gauck.
After all, the future is not achieved through a “paralysis of fear” but “through a combative commitment.”